Did we misread this or is he being a bit cheeky?

[Paraballa]

This could go either way but this is just for opinions as we are paying him anyway.

We had some cupboard doors that were sticking as the frame had moved. We know a guy through our church who is a carpenter but he mainly does artisan stuff, making furniture.

Anyway DH was chatting to him and mentioned the doors and he said he'd take a look. Which he did. And he refused payment. All very lovely.

Unfortunately it happened again and the doors stuck again. DH mentioned it in a "we need to get our doors fixed again" way and the guy offered to "come and have a look". This was last summer.

He never came but kept mentioning it to DH: "oh I need to come look at your doors".

Last week he finally did. He came and literally looked at them (although they are the same as last year) then said he'd come a particular day but turned up unexpectedly sooner without notice.

All fine. I didn't mind. He came in and trimmed the doors, I asked if he could look at another one and he did, then also did some other cupboard doors he said were sticking but I hadn't noticed and I use them every day. "I did those one too for you" was what he said.

As he left I said thank you and to let us know what we owed him. Because we didn't expect it totally free.

Last night he sent an invoice for £140 covering "2 visits". (The actual work and the coming to have a look.)

We are totally shocked. We would have never agreed to it if we'd known he'd charge that much (£40 an hour apparently). He never said he was treating us as a client and as we asked him in July and he only just came we don't feel we were treated as a Client.

We've decided just to pay and never mention anything carpentry related to him again but did we misread? Or is he being a bit cheeky?

I'm autistic so may well have misunderstood as I often do but DH thought it was a favour too.

So if you did want to pay, what’s the problem? You’re paying! And a good rate at that.
You asked how much you owe, you wanted to pay, he gave you a price.

You ask a professional to do a job then a bill is bound to follow.

I honestly don't understand what your issue is. You say you wanted to pay him, originally and this second time, but now he has sent you his invoice your saying that at church people should do each other favours. Honestly it sounds like he has done the job much cheaper than it otherwise would have been, he has also done you a freebie, I just don't understand. The 8 month wait? Well that's not that unusual here either.

You say you wanted to pay him, you also say you couldn’t afford to pay him so wouldn’t have had it done if you knew you had to pay. Which is it?

Yes and now the husband doesn't wish to use him again as they did have to pay. Which they really wanted to, but wouldn't have had him do the work if they'd know they had to pay.and they really weren't hinting when they mentioned it to him, or kept agreeing with him for eight months he needed to pop round,

I'd love to know which church this is really and what they are teaching.

You're brave OP! On MN, tradesmen are sacred and almost always in the right (I imagine because a lot of MNers are married to them). There was a thread on here recently about someone charging nearly £400 for a half hour visit and some people told her to 'chalk it up to experience'.

I get that builders, carpenters etc often get messed around and that must be really annoying, but I genuinely don't understand why they seem to be exempt from the rules that apply in literally every other industry, that you should give the customer a quote before you start the work. When I work freelance, if someone asks me to do a piece of work, I say 'it will cost you x, are you happy to go ahead?' There's no way I'd start doing the work then present a bill.

Anyway I know that's not quite your situation but no I don't think you are being unreasonable here.

I think he should have given you a quote but at the same time I think you should have asked how much before he did it rather than after. The fact you didn't ask makes me think you hadn't really intended to pay - I'd always ask just to be sure I'm happy with the rate (and we have cash to spare). Although I do agree it's cheeky that he added doors you hadn't asked about and charged for that as well... so really you are both to blame!

@sasparilla1 but would your DH not give a quote first? And would he also do extra work that the householder didn't ask to be done, without checking first if he should, and then bill them?

I would hope not. But that is exactly what has happened here.

I don't see why everyone is piling in to give OP a kicking. A few days ago, there was a thread about an artist who had been commissioned to do some work, had quoted £150 for it, then did extra to it, because she wanted to, without asking OP, and then charged the OP £300. Everyone was telling the OP that she shouldn't pay for the extra work, because it wasn't what OP had asked for, and she hadn't discussed it beforehand.

How is this different? OP says he was there another hour doing the doors that she hadn't asked him to do. So, OP should only have to pay £100, and he should have given her a quote first, for all of it.

Cheap IMO. The first time he offered, the second he didn't?

You seem to think he shouldn't have charged for the first visit to look at the doors, because they hadn't materially changed. But he wouldn't have known that until AFTER he'd spent the time coming round to your house and looking at them. The visit still cost him professional time.

It's hypocritical to ask him what you owe him, and then be shocked when he told you! be more up front next time. you were devious in asking him and yet not expecting to pay. At the very least you should have mentioned money when he came to look at them, and not after he did the work. His bill wasn't expensive at all

You're brave OP! On MN, tradesmen are sacred and almost always in the right

Right up until the point that they ask to use your toilet and then have the audacity to do a poo

I don't think yabu. He charged you 8 months later and took 8 months to fix it. That isn't a service I would pay full whack for.

I think you would be surprised how tradesmen treat clients for very small jobs. From my experience and that of friends, it is indeed as you describe for comparable jobs. Nobody wants to waste their time to do a few hours work and a lot of people just refuse. If they take the work, the customer service is pretty poor. It’s a constant topic of conversation in my circle. I understand that they would rather direct their efforts on bigger jobs so fair enough, but a better level of customer service wouldn’t go amiss. So I think this better level of service you would expect as a ‘customer’ is a bit unrealistic.

It’s poor he didn’t give you a proper quote and did work without instructions to do so. I don’t understand how anyone can see this as reasonable. I also don’t think the onus is on you to get the quote, he is the professional and it should be his duty to advise what work needs to be done and anticipated costs for it. If anything it saves him from people refusing to pay afterwards, it’s just proper business practice.

Charging you isn’t unreasonable but the way he has approached the whole thing is unreasonable and unprofessional. It does seem like you were looking for ‘mates rates’ though and so this could also be a bit cheeky. As pp have said, to avoid this in future it is better you take charge of the arrangement and insist on a price in advance. You have done the decent thing by just paying him as I doubt you would get it done cheaper anyway.

He did the first as a freebie. You guys dropped hints that you wanted another one, and then when he arrived you added more work on top. You then told him you owed him and he gave you his price. Don't see the issue here.

@RainbowWaffles He probably did that other cupboard unprompted so they wouldn't pester him again.

He has given you mates rates. What you really needed was either to do it yourself or get in a handyman who would charge you not much more than £10 or so an hour

My dh, dad, brother, in fact every male relative I have is NOT a tradesman. Tradespeople are not ‘sacred’. But the op sounds very U, for all the reasons mentioned; she took a freebie from a fellow churchgoer, then waited around not having the work done till he eventually came back, after her husband brought it up with him again. When he arrived she told him she wanted him to look at the first cupboard PLUS an extra one, so he took the initiative and did whatever needed to be done in the kitchen. When he was leaving the op said “let us know how much we owe you for the work” and he billed her, not an unreasonable amount. Now the op is pissed off because he billed her when she can’t afford it and they’re church friends so they should do favours for each other. Btw, I still haven’t heard how the op has provided free work for the carpenter as a church favour... How anyone can find the op’s behaviour anything but cheeky is a mystery to me, unless you are of the CF persuasion yourself.

He has probably billed you to ensure you stop expecting free work in the future. If you looked after his children for half an hour as a favour, then he asked you again, brought some extras with him and left them for several hours you'd be shouting about CFery on MN. It's equivalent. Don't take advantage of someone's good nat ure.

OP, you could have left it at "thank you very much, we owe you one, just let us know when you need babysitting whatever", or invite him for a meal in exchange (not good enough friend?), but you said for him to tell you how much it was, after lumbering him with an extra job when he showed up.
I suspect he charged you because he doesn't want you giving hints in future and feel he has to offer.

You keep saying you wanted to pay, but then you're upset you had to.

To how many people does your OH complain about cupboard doors? Honestly?

You seem to think he shouldn't have charged for the first visit to look at the doors, because they hadn't materially changed.

Tradespeople don't usually charge to come round and see what needs doing. They then usually give the potential client a quote.

He has been very unprofessional.

YANBU in my opinion - his communication has been poor and if he wanted to charge for his services he should've said this to you before doing any work so that you could make a decision about whether to employ him.

He has done the work now though, so I would pay him as you plan to.

You know how to handle situations like this in the future now - I agree with others that it is often better to employ tradespeople who are not friends, so you can keep everything formal and professional.

I think you should have asked the cost first to make sure he knew you weren't asking for a freebie and also so you can decide if you wanted him to do the job.

I think if the job wasn’t done correctly the first time then he should’ve come out to fix the issue. I think he also should have said in the interim that he would be charging for this visit, to give you heads up on whether you wanted to proceed! I think it is a little cheeky tbh. Ignore all of the keyboard warriors LOL.

I don’t know anything about autism but I’m pretty sure cheeky fuckery isn’t a common feature.

Romax today is world Autism awareness day, I'm pretty sure it's a great day for you to become aware.