Did we misread this or is he being a bit cheeky?

[Paraballa]

This could go either way but this is just for opinions as we are paying him anyway.

We had some cupboard doors that were sticking as the frame had moved. We know a guy through our church who is a carpenter but he mainly does artisan stuff, making furniture.

Anyway DH was chatting to him and mentioned the doors and he said he'd take a look. Which he did. And he refused payment. All very lovely.

Unfortunately it happened again and the doors stuck again. DH mentioned it in a "we need to get our doors fixed again" way and the guy offered to "come and have a look". This was last summer.

He never came but kept mentioning it to DH: "oh I need to come look at your doors".

Last week he finally did. He came and literally looked at them (although they are the same as last year) then said he'd come a particular day but turned up unexpectedly sooner without notice.

All fine. I didn't mind. He came in and trimmed the doors, I asked if he could look at another one and he did, then also did some other cupboard doors he said were sticking but I hadn't noticed and I use them every day. "I did those one too for you" was what he said.

As he left I said thank you and to let us know what we owed him. Because we didn't expect it totally free.

Last night he sent an invoice for £140 covering "2 visits". (The actual work and the coming to have a look.)

We are totally shocked. We would have never agreed to it if we'd known he'd charge that much (£40 an hour apparently). He never said he was treating us as a client and as we asked him in July and he only just came we don't feel we were treated as a Client.

We've decided just to pay and never mention anything carpentry related to him again but did we misread? Or is he being a bit cheeky?

I'm autistic so may well have misunderstood as I often do but DH thought it was a favour too.

If he'd been round at your house and seen they stuck and offered to sort it, then it would be fair enough to assume he was coming as a favour.

You hinting, which is what it boils down to, about the doors, is you paying. He's undercharged you if he's that good too.

Look at it this way: The time he spent at your house he couldn't be somewhere else earning his full charge.

We know a guy through our church who is a carpenter

Totally missing the point here, but presumably not the most famous person associated with that trade who is mentioned at your church

Why didn't you get someone else to do it over those 8 months?

If I were him I'd be thinking that and I'd probably be thinking it's because you wanted him to do it for free.

From what others have said, it's not a bad price at all, the only mistake he's made is not giving you a quote first. He may not have done because he may not have been thinking of charging you until you told him to tell you how much you owe him.

I think both sides have been a bit cheeky and crap at communicating tbh.

You had a freebie last time and then your dh hinted in the hope of getting a second freebie. You say yourself you didn't expect it 'totally free'.

I think your mate probably didn't want to end up getting sucked in to being always asked for these favours as he's really not that kind of carpenter. So he prevaricated and then felt guilty so did the work but charged. Instead he should have simply said 'I really don't have time' or sure I can but it'll cost x amount.

Your dh shouldn't really have hinted and when time ticked on you should have released him from the obligation as it was obvious he was struggling to find time to do it.

I wouldn’t read too much into the OP offering to pay, AliceRR. She clearly doesn’t expect to be billed when she offers to pay.

I suspect when eight months later the op and her husband has still not said to him, when he mentioned it again, "oh don't worry it's fixed, but thank uou anyway,we wouldn't dream of impinging on your further", and then when he fronted up, she asked him to look at another door and fix that too on top of the original work, he simply though cf and charged, as they had moved into taking the piss territory,

She then said, let me know how much I owe you. So he did. And a reasonable rate too if this was for two visits and fixing multiple cupboard doors.

The less cheeky fucker way to handle it, was a couple of months after her husband had dropped the heavy hints when he said I still need to come out, was to say, god no, it's fixed, but thank you. And to then hire a joiner or leave it. Not to keep agreeing with the poor bastard that he did indeed need to come out again.

I think he is unreasonable as he didn't tell you how much he charged an hour, or indeed estimate what the work would cost you. He should have done that on the second visit (first did sound like a favour). He should have said- I can't do this again and will have to do it as a paid job, it'll be X.

I sometimes do a favour for my neighbour, I've done it repeatedly, but I could charge- I would never start charging without letting them know in advance!

but presumably not the most famous person associated with that trade who is mentioned at your church

Did he do carpentry freebies, though? You don't read about him being invited in by Mary and Martha to fix their chairs.

He's not the CF in this case.

£140 to trim two cupboard doors when he didn't do it properly the first time? I'd say it's daylight robbery!

I'm not surprised you're miffed if that's the way he runs his business... leaving it eight months to come out after botching it up the first time.

You probably don't have any choice but to pay it because you know him personally but he's got a right cheek

Are these the same doors that stuck originally? Or different ones? If the same, I'm not sure I'd trust his work.

Seems a bit unfair he a) charged for an estimate visit and b) started doing the cupboards without telling the OP they needed doing/obtaining consent and which she didn't think needed doing and then charging her for the work.

He charged you because you called him a second time.

Most people are happy to do a favour once for mates, but a second time starts to look like you might take advantage.

Everyone I know who has a trade gets called for favours, and "can you just have a look at this?' - it's never-ending, and it's rarely work that is as simple as it looks.

DH is v handy with computers, he ends up fixing everyone's laptops/mobile phones/printers... you name it. He doesn't mind, but I'm fairly sure people have no idea how much time he spends on it. He usually gets given a bottle of wine or something which I drink

But as usual I'm obviously not communicating well here as I always get a kicking on AIBU!

You are communicating it fine. We understand he did the job first time free as a favour, you asked how much and he declined payment. It stuck again, he came to have a look and then eventually came and sorted it.
Yes he should have made it clear price wise first but I think what he is making clear is that he doesn’t want to be having you think, every time he pops by to look or fix something, that it is going to be a freebie.

Everyone I know who has a trade gets called for favours, and "can you just have a look at this?' - it's never-ending, and it's rarely work that is as simple as it looks.

YY^^. There’s a reason people ask their ‘mates’ in the trade rather than doing it themselves; it’s a valuable skill which tradespeople train for years to be able to do and a pain in the arse to boot! If it’s just a wee favour and not worth paying any money for, do it yourself 🤷‍♀️.

"£140 to trim two cupboard doors when he didn't do it properly the first time? I'd say it's daylight robbery!
I'm not surprised you're miffed if that's the way he runs his business... leaving it eight months to come out after botching it up the first time. "

Glad I'm not the only one who read it like that!

He then did another door that he was asked to & two more that he wasn't

If he didn't want to bother, he should have said!

He was actually very nice to decline payment first time round. No one likes doing freebies for anyone unless they're a very very nice person.

If e.g. like my stepdad and their elderly neighbour (they've known each other years) and she asks him politely to fix something, she would get a handyman if stepdad didn't mind - and she will always ask if she can pay him - my stepdad always says no (of course!) but she gives him money for materials. Elderly neighbour is also a church goer but isn't a CF.

Most people I know who have trades - e.g. building/carpentry etc rarely do mates rates unless they know the person really well/relative as it can go wrong and/or they get taken advantage of. Come to think of that - my DBro's mates who did carpentry etc - if they did work for my DM etc - they'd come round - charge their usual rates but often as it was DBro's DM they'd do it for mates rates but my DM usually paid them their usual rate. If someone offers (mechanic that DBro knows) to do a job for a favour then he's let them or me know that and it's their choice. But usually DM and I doesn't take the piss and pay full rates. For workers like mechanics we prefer to stick to people we know especially if I've gone before I was married etc in case as some men charged us more when they saw me alone. Add to that these workers can often end up doing extra work on top of their own which they may not want to do.

I agree with the above he charged you to stop you asking for a third visit. You are the CF not him.

So he told you the first visit was a freebie and didn’t charge. Then came out a second time (8 months later) and charged not only for that visit but also for the previous freebie? YANBU to be annoyed. It’s fair enough to charge for the second visit but not for the first!

If he didn't want to bother, he should have said!

Ugh, it’s like the mantra of the chronically grabby.

I'm sorry but YABU.

My dh is roofer, and will help pretty much any of our friends out but you do have to draw the line somewhere. It's his livelihood, but the amount of people who just want to "pop round" is shocking.

You got your freebie the first time, but you realky can't expect him to keep coming back and not charging. As for the amount of time it took him to come, it sounds like delaying tactics. If you'd made it clear you were going to pay, and weren't expecting another freebie, then I'm sure he would have been round much quicker.

If I had been you and he'd done me the first initial favour and wouldn't charge then when they needed doing again I would've not mentioned it to him again as it would look like I expected another freebie or if I were prepared to pay the going rate I would've said to him I'm going to pay someone to do it if you're interested in the work and pay it's yours otherwise I'll get someone in but I can't accept another freebie.

Carpentry is this man's trade if he does even two freebies every year for church members he'll never get a spare moment.
Once is a favour twice is taking advantage.

If he was planning to charge you he should have said so upfront, and agreed a price. This would have allowed you to say "eh, no thanks. I'll get someone off Gumtree to shave the doors for £30, thanks".

He probably wasn't the right person for this job, if he specialises in hand-making furniture. Plus his first attempt didn't work.

TBH I do think he should have given you a price before going ahead and doing the work, and also by the sounds doing 2 doors you hadn't asked for.

So maybe just a breakdown in communication, but I don't know any tradesmen who do not give a guide price before taking on a job. To be fair I don't know many though so maybe its the norm?

You said you're paying him so alls fine, but I can understand from your point that you'd have declined his help had you known the cost.

If he was planning to charge you he should have said so upfront, and agreed a price. This would have allowed you to say "eh, no thanks. I'll get someone off Gumtree to shave the doors for £30, thanks".

He probably wasn’t planning to charge, but when the op asked for extra bits to be done and then said “let us know how much we owe you”, he took her at her word and charged her. Sounds fair to me!

Church has gotten rather mercenary. I can see the attraction now.