Did we misread this or is he being a bit cheeky?

[Paraballa]

This could go either way but this is just for opinions as we are paying him anyway.

We had some cupboard doors that were sticking as the frame had moved. We know a guy through our church who is a carpenter but he mainly does artisan stuff, making furniture.

Anyway DH was chatting to him and mentioned the doors and he said he'd take a look. Which he did. And he refused payment. All very lovely.

Unfortunately it happened again and the doors stuck again. DH mentioned it in a "we need to get our doors fixed again" way and the guy offered to "come and have a look". This was last summer.

He never came but kept mentioning it to DH: "oh I need to come look at your doors".

Last week he finally did. He came and literally looked at them (although they are the same as last year) then said he'd come a particular day but turned up unexpectedly sooner without notice.

All fine. I didn't mind. He came in and trimmed the doors, I asked if he could look at another one and he did, then also did some other cupboard doors he said were sticking but I hadn't noticed and I use them every day. "I did those one too for you" was what he said.

As he left I said thank you and to let us know what we owed him. Because we didn't expect it totally free.

Last night he sent an invoice for £140 covering "2 visits". (The actual work and the coming to have a look.)

We are totally shocked. We would have never agreed to it if we'd known he'd charge that much (£40 an hour apparently). He never said he was treating us as a client and as we asked him in July and he only just came we don't feel we were treated as a Client.

We've decided just to pay and never mention anything carpentry related to him again but did we misread? Or is he being a bit cheeky?

I'm autistic so may well have misunderstood as I often do but DH thought it was a favour too.

Lesson learnt. Personally by saying ' let us know how much we owe you' in my mind translates to something vague along the lines of ' I hope you see it as a favour'.
Had you have paid the first time and insisted on doing so instead of being vague there would not have been a problem in using the carpenters services the second time. As it was done for free your dh should have made it clear when he mentioned it again that he expected to be charged. It probably came across as being cf and the carpenter was worried about not being paid again.

This is exactly why we never ask anyone we 'know'.
Years ago we got a chap from church to put down some hardstanding. He gave us a quote, we accepted. He did an ok job, then told us we owed more than the quote because he had done extra (unasked).
Luckily we paid in installments by cheque (I said it was a while ago!) because he then started harassing us for the money he said we owed.
We were able to say which dates the cheques cleared and suggested that he took it up with his bank. We never heard any more, because we had paid in full.
He later did the same thing to the church, doing work he hadn't been asked to do and charging for it.
Lesson learnt. We only ever employ tradesmen on a professional basis, and never people we know.
I think it is one to chalk up to experience OP.

Lesson learnt. Personally by saying ' let us know how much we owe you' in my mind translates to something vague along the lines of ' I hope you see it as a favour

that is not what “let us know what we owe you means”. It’s almosy exactly the opposite of what it means.

It should have been agreed in advance but it doesn't seem unreasonable for the work done. However, in future why not get a couple of quotes, compare them then engage the one you want. I think doing it through social or church connections means it can go a bit wrong tbh.

Andofcoursehenrythehorse, obviously in your expert opinion.

Probably expecting/hinting about a second freebie was a bit cheeky but it sounds like he didn't do a great job the first time round, so I'm not sure why you'd ask him to do it again.

He's definitely entitled to charge for his time and labour but I think he's totally out of order with this part:

then also did some other cupboard doors he said were sticking but I hadn't noticed and I use them every day. "I did those one too for you" was what he said.

So he went ahead and did other work in your home without your consent, work that you didn't think needed doing, and then he charged you for the total time, including for the work that you hadn't asked or wanted him to do.

That part, combined with the fact that he clearly didn't do a great job the first time around and the fact that he messed you around regarding when he was going to turn up makes him sound a bit dodgy. I suspect you probably aren't going to have much of a choice in terms of paying him but like you said, if he was going to invoice you at full cost you'd expect him to behave professionally as he would with any other paying client.

You asked him for a favour once, which he obliged quite happily.

You then wanted the ‘favour’ again. You’re complaining because he supposedly overcharged you (in other words more than you were willing to pay, which means you were still expecting a favour, for the second time), when I bet he’s actually given you mate’s rates anyway! I bet he charges fee-paying, non-cheeky clients more than that for his time.

"Ugh, it’s like the mantra of the chronically grabby."

Andofcoursehenrythehorse, obviously in your expert opinion.

I don’t have to be an expert. “Let us know what we owe you” does not mean “do not let us know what we owe, as we expect this to be free of charge actually. Ta”.

I think the fact you waited since last summer for him to have a look probably indicates that you were hoping for another freebie. If you had wanted to pay you could have called in someone else.

Do your doors work now and are you happy with the work? Then pay up, he offered to come around the second time, despite waiting 6 months or so you allowed him to do the work, you offered to pay and £140 seems a fair price for a good job.

If you bring up in conversation with a tradesperson you've met at church that you have a problem in his line of work you are pretty much hinting for him to do it free/cheap. My husband has attended the same church for years and knows several different tradespeople very well but he wouldn't dream of accepting free work from any of them. They have their living to earn like everybody else. It's bad enough when family and really good friends ask/hint for work done, but if people in his church do this he will find it will make it harder for him to get a proper rate for the job. Word gets around and other people also expect the same.

After he came the first time and wouldn't accept any payment it would have been thoughtful to insist or at least buy him a present in kind ...maybe a voucher for a meal out. As he was generous enough to come the first time for nothing it wasn't really fair to mention to him again that you were having problems and then point out extra he could also do while he was there.

If that is his going rate ...fair enough. Perhaps you expected less than the going rate having been helped for free the first time ...but this is not going to pay his mortgage or put food on the table for his family.

I’m confused, why did you say ‘how much do we owe you?’ if you weren’t expecting/planning to pay him?

crimsonlake. Are you actually serious? 🤣. You must have pissed off so many people...

The £140 was reasonable enough.
OP you really need to understand that people don't like doing free favours. Its a lesson learned in future get a variety of quotes upfront then choose who you want to do the job.

I would have said no to him offering to help if he didn’t take payment.
I don’t want to take freebies as someway I always feel indebted to them.

I would have insisted to pay

I don’t have to be an expert. “Let us know what we owe you” does not mean “do not let us know what we owe, as we expect this to be free of charge actually. Ta”.
I agree. Of course it means “let us know what we owe you” Only a CF thinks otherwise.

Did he do carpentry freebies, though? You don't read about him being invited in by Mary and Martha to fix their chairs.

He was such a nice guy, I’m sure he did endless freebie work and fed everyone afterwards 😂

Yes, something akin to fish and chips, most likely!

If you can't afford £140 then you probably couldn't to afford get this done at all, then.

Ugh, it’s like the mantra of the chronically grabby

That's exactly what it is.

@crimsonlake

Personally by saying ' let us know how much we owe you' in my mind translates to something vague along the lines of ' I hope you see it as a favour'.

This is clearly what YOU think. Don't assume other people think this.

Re the OP, learn from this, and don't use people you know to do stuff for you. As the wife of someone who has a husband who has a certain acquired skill, and gets people asking him to do free work for them, it really pisses me off when people assume skilled people are happy to do their job - for free (for them!)

@Paraballa

I know you said you didn't expect it for free, but I think you must have, because you seem irked that you had to pay.

You wanted a freebie and he rightly pegged you as piss-taking misers and presented you with a bill.

I know none of you believe me but I did want to pay. I wanted to pay him the very first time too but he refused.

However, my husband wasn't hinting. He really wasn't. He isn't like that. This guy is his friend and they were discussing how it all seemed to have moved (we have tiles cracked too) and he offered. Or so it seemed to us. Clearly in future we will very much look a gift horse in the mouth.

We have paid and said nothing. I said that in the OP.

I'm a trade too and if I say I will have a look at something for someone I do it free or reduced rates. If I want to charge then I say that up front. That's what I'd expected.

And I didn't need or want the other doors doing as they weren't sticking as far as I could tell. That was about an hour's work we didn't ask him to do so I am miffed about that.

I did also ask him before he came to quote us for something else entirely (making something as us his usual work) so I don't think we are CF as I fully expected to pay full price for that. (Except now DH doesn't want to use him at all so I will find someone else. We need to save up for that anyway.)

How can you say you wanted to pay but also say uou couldn't have afforded it and if you had known you had to pay woulsnt have had any of the work done?

Can I ask politely what sort of church yiu attend where this behaviour is acceptable? Dishonesty about your true motives, using peoole repeatedly for freebies, being vengeful and refusing to use them again when you had to pay likely less than the going rate ? What sort of church advocates this behaviour?

Of course your dh was hinting. Why would he raise the subject with the very person who had the tools to sort it if it was just casual conversation? How was he expecting the conversation to go?