Social housing stigma?

[Icantsleep3am]

I came across a thread here on MN and was struck at vile abuse thrown at the Op regarding her post on her situation in social housing. Assumptions were made (untrue), of lasiness, irresponsibily spewing sprogs around, using the system, being benefit scrounges etc. It made me wonder - why people make these assumptions?
I grew up in a family with a very strong work ethic, only relying on yourself, always striving to have a better life etc. I was ambitious, driven, hard working, had a high flying career in the past, yet the circumstances are that I live in social housing. I always invisaged myself being successful, having own house, financially secure. But an illness from which I nearly died, although I made a complete recovery, few financial setbacks when I lost all savings shook my confidence. Then I met and fell in love with my now husband (who incidentally believed that ownership was bourgeois and against his principles), by the time I recovered from my illness I was just about to pass my childbearing years. So we had children (2) without having time to save up for a house, but according to some posters on the other thread, poor people have no right to have children! And all hope of buying a place flew out of the window again when my husband got diagnosed with cancer (he’s recovered now) and now we are both past the age when we could get a mortgage. We are overcrowded, quite severely but it is a separate issue. So any time I talk about it I feel judged. We don’t abuse the system; both me and my husband work hard; we pay rent - cheaper than private, but nonetheless, and not that cheap; we pay taxes; we don’t claim benefits. So why there is such a shame around the issue of social housing - why everyone thinks I have a lesser right to life than those who own their houses? Why such a patronising attitude?

Some women have baby after baby due to coercive control. I've read about women getting pregnant after the partner ripped out contraception (implant or coil) with pliers. But hey! It's only the women's fault she's pregnant eh? Nice internalised misogyny there @chillpizza!

Yes there is a terrible stigma (and often resentment) towards people in social housing. I was brought up for part of my childhood in social housing. Both my parents were working professionals. They were offered the flat because they hadn’t bought a home and were renting privately and were on a council list. They paid an expensive rent and were not on benefits. I was a child so had no influence or information about housing. I noticed the stigma immediately. As an adult i have lived in social housing too. Never on benefits. Always paying a high rent. Not as high as private maybe but high. This is because I never thought I could own a property (single mum- yes that terrible crime too!). OP I was reading a thread here at the weekend and there was so much vitriol and hostility because the OP lived in social housing and wanted to swap. People were jumping in telling her to stop having children and how wrong she was to expect to be housed all without knowing anything of her life.
By the way- something I found out years after being stigmatised as a penniless single mum in a tower block- lots of the wealthy families who looked down at me in my home and who lived in mansion buildings were actually claiming housing benefit (dishonesty) so those fabulous homes were being subsided by me rather than vice versa! I’ve gone off on a tangent but I think it’s disgraceful and often hypocritical to look down your nose at someone because of where they live. And don’t assume that social housing means free rent! (The number of people I’ve had to put straight about that one!) my rent is more than lots of people’s mortgages. Sorry for the rant. Good luck op and hold your head up!

Ive just finished reading Witchfinders A Seventeenth Century English Tragedy.

The "witches" tried and hanged were not all women. Some were men.

One accused was an eight year old boy.

What most of them had in common was that they were poor. Yes poor. A lot of them were widows who needed what was known then as parish money to live. Elizabeth Clarke was an 84 year old one legged widow who was hanged. Many more were elderly. Neighbour turned against neighbour. Many resented their rates and parish money going to help these "wretches"

See any parallels? Because i do.

At the end of the book (although he does allude to it throughout) the author mentions how lack of liberty and welfare and political and economic uncertainty leads to this kind of climate.

We wouldnt get people persecuted for practising witchcraft now (although this still goes on in parts of the developing world) but we still get people persecuted for being poor/disabled etc.

Matthew Hopkins John Stearne and Sir Harbottle Grimston etc are long dead But some of their ideals are still very much alive.

There are parallels and its chilling.

No I’m not blaming just single mums Christ.

It was well known in my area at least that if you wanted to move out likely of your currently overcrowded parents house you as a female could get pregnant and our local council would house you more often than not in a 2 bed house the bf could then actually move in too and often did once she had secured housing. It was a loop hole. As pointed out by another poster mainly Poor families as it was the only way they could get anywhere.

That all changed around 2008/2009 when our council clamped down and started putting teen mums into young mums hostels where they would be monitored and then moved into 1bedroom places as and when one becomes available. Our teen pregnancy rate has dropped funnily enough.

Despite the repeal of the Witchcraft Act in 1736, lynchings of English witches continued well into the 20th century, with the last recorded incident in 1945. Nor, in Gaskill's opinion, are we safe from a fresh outbreak. Witch-lynchings are endemic in the developing world (particularly in sub-Saharan Africa) where "poor and fearful people still associate misfortune with ill-will, and take remedial action". And without "peace and prosperity, liberty and welfare" there is, he thinks, every chance that the next generation in the West "might swerve off in an altogether more mystical and malevolent direction

Interesting info HelenaDove. I too see the parallels in this.

its a bloody good book. I recommend it highly The author is Malcolm Gaskill.

www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/3640908/Copulating-with-the-devil.html

@chillpizza

Teenage pregnancy rates have been falling for years, even in areas where housing rules have not changed. I can't really see how being a single mum in a council flat living in poverty was ever something to aspire to though.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/18/how-uk-halved-teenage-pregnancy-rate-public-health-strategy

I think a lot of the problem is the Daily Mail type articles about huge families claiming loads of benefits and living in huge houses. I remember one story where a huge family (I think 14 including parents, adult kids and younger kids) were privately housed by a council in London in some really expensive housing. People then think this type of thing is the norm, when it is in fact a tiny minority.

I live in a council house. I have done for 10 years and am very grateful to have a well maintained (but not luxurious) house in a decent area. A combination of single parenthood and disability means I will likely never get a mortgage. I worked out I have probably paid close to 40% of the value of the house in rent, it is a 1940s house so the building costs will have been paid off a long time ago.

I'm seeing parallels there with the book @HelenaDove
I'd probably be tried for being of loose morals rather than witchcraft though. I not only work ft but nights too, or as one of my neighbours (who bought their council bungalow at a vastly reduced rate) put it "Single mum out galavanting at all hours with the likes of US paying her rent"
As they're not my employer, and as they're not paying my rent because I do, I'm baffled by how they think they're paying my rent.
It's everywhere unfortunately. The stigma not only of social housing but to live in one and be a single mum, well, lead me to the ducking stool now!

Ducking stools were more often used for the crime of being a scold.

I wish I could buy, I could afford a mortgage nowadays but I was bankrupt a few years back so nobody would be willing to lend to me! Which is a pity as it would free up my 2 bed flat (HA). My rent (£600pm) is far more than alot of my friend's mortgages (£350-£400pm) Over 20 odd yrs I've paid around £120k over the years I've been here.

They didnt bother with a stool with John Lowes They threw him in the moat at Framlingham Castle.

People were also persecuted for not following the "right religion" and Lowes was brave enough to speak out against the witchfinders.

Loose Women were quite happy to perpetuate social housing stigma last week.

I have a lovely council property and after having a run of private rentals I’m under no illusion how fortunate I am to have a secure tenancy.

I’m also a single parent so I’d not be able to get a mortgage very easily on the wage I have. Knowing that I have the security of a sensible rent and access to housing benefit if I ever find myself in need of help is reassuring.

I’ve seen friends who own their properties struggle to fix their roofnor replace a boiler etc - as the only adult id struggle to have money for these things on top on usual expenses.

However, I don’t consider that I’m am ‘subsidised’ - I pay a fair not cheap rent for a lower earner and don’t get help in the form of HB.

I live in a gorgeous 4 bed HA house my rent is £410 a month and it's a secure tenancy. Dh wants to buy a house and I flat out refuse to move. I couldn't live with a mortgage over my head, the fear of something happening to dh and we can't afford the mortgage payments and leaving us all homeless. Nothing is forever you could lose you job in a flash and with that comes bailiffs and homelessness. Nope if he wants to buy and move out he'll be doing it alone. I'll stay in my nice comfy,safe and secure house thank you.

So no judgement from me, I don't see the point in buying anyway. You can only do the same in a house wether you rent or buy..and that's live in it.

I own a ex local authority flat. The rooms are big and you're getting a property for a lower price than non ex local authority prices. I had my DCs development check last year when the HV did a home visit, she commented on my lovely view, I replied with "I think I made a good choice" her reply "you got to choose" she's assumed that because of where I live that I'm in social housing and had no choice where I lived, I did reply with "well when I bought it..."

I read the thread you mentioned OP and I was disgusted at the snobby perfect parents who made all sorts of assumptions about the poster. MN bitches at its worst!

@pansydansy

The downside of renting is that you will still be paying your rent in the retirement years, home owners mostly won't be, that is why I would buy if I could.

@Brilliantidiot well said

I remember someone at my work ranting on about social housing tenants. She’d gone to private school, lived in her parents London flat rent free. They then gave the flat to her and she sold it, and used the money for a large deposit to buy a big house further out. Oh but SH tenants are the ones getting everything handed to them on a plate

Some people just have no idea and they won’t listen to anything that goes against their narrative.

Op you say you’re too old to get a mortgage, but can I ask how old you are? I’ve been in private rented for 15 years due to divorce, am now 55 and was getting worried about how I would cope when I retired as renting would be a difficult option then. I thought I was too old to get a mortgage but saw a house that I liked which came on the market and thought I would give it a go. I went through a broker and got a mortgage - moving into my new home in a month. So it is doable.

@Asta19

I remember someone at my work ranting on about social housing tenants. She’d gone to private school, lived in her parents London flat rent free. They then gave the flat to her and she sold it, and used the money for a large deposit to buy a big house further out. Oh but SH tenants are the ones getting everything handed to them on a plate.

Exactly. As has been said, the hate and vitriol towards social housing tenants (from some) knows no bounds! Yet, many more people in society get waaaaaay more 'handouts' than anyone in social housing!

Good for you @Livelovebehappy but no way in hell would you catch me taking on a mortgage at 55. JMO.

@OohYeBelter47

The downside of renting is that you will still be paying your rent in the retirement years.

Why? Most people in their retirement years would have their rent paid by housing benefit when they retire.

Home owners mostly won't be paying anything, that is why I would buy if I could.

Many people will still be paying their mortgage into their pensionable years, and even when they stop (when the house is paid for,) they will still be forking out mega £££ for repairs and maintenance. Don't need to do that when you rent.

Private rent sucks, but if you rent from a social housing landlord that is decent, it trumps buying IMO. Buying was better many years ago, but there aren't many advantages to it now tbh.

I know quite a number of people who have bought a property during the last 10-12 years/have a (large) mortgage; they never have any money, they are always in debt, and the house always needs money spending on it.

Conversely, I know quite a number of people who rent from a housing association or the council, their rent is £300 to £400 a month, all repairs and maintenance is covered, and they all live in quite decent areas. 2 of them live in little cul de sacs, and have a driveway and a garage. Some of them have new cars, 2 holidays abroad every year, and new furniture, new tv, new laptops etc, carpets, every 3-5 years, and new clothes every time I see them. Much more surplus income than people who are buying, and no worries about having to fork out a 5 figure sum if the roof needs replacing.

Most of the people I know who have bought in the last decade/decade and a half, haven't spent a penny on themselves, updated the car, or had a holiday abroad since they bought their house/got their (large) mortgage.

I honestly don't know a soul who has bought a house this past 10-12 years who has loads of surplus income. The house (mortgage/insurances/maintenance/repairs etc,) tends to take all their money.

On a slightly different tangent, I do laugh when I see someone say they are 'subsidising social housing with their taxes.' I can't believe people are that clueless, and so badly educated that they actually think that!!!