AIBU to think it was unfair that I didn't get a vote (Brexit)

[Nicolamarlow1]

At the time of the referendum my DH and I had lived in France for more than 15 years and therefore we couldn't vote in the referendum (or in any other UK elections come to that). We are now back in the UK. Just because we lived there at the time didn't mean we were there forever. While we were in France we were still British citizens and there must be thousands of expats like us who were denied a vote on Brexit.

But OP after 15 years of not voting for anything else in the UK why would they assume you might come back one say?

Like I said, I get that the result affects you a lot and it sucks(understatement). But by that logic everyone in the EU should have had a vote in it. 15 years isn't you were on holidays, on a year in college in Europe. There has to be a cut off point.

Actually - the "Overseas Electors Bill 2017-19" has been running through parliament - the proceedings were adjourned 10 days ago (22 March) on its third reading - I think they ran out of time;

services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/overseaselectors.html

The bill is supported by the Conservative frontbench - but not the Labour frontbench;

www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-5427507/MPs-plans-end-15-year-time-limit-expats-voting-British-elections.html

2018 - Ilford South MP Mike Gapes (Labour) who spoke in support of the Bill, wrote on Twitter:“I am appalled that Labour frontbench are opposing the bill and trying to talk it out."

“Clearly in this case Labour Leadership is for the few not the many.”

Labour 'betraying' British citizens abroad who cannot vote.
Refusal to back bill removing time limit on expats’ voting rights angers campaigners.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/27/labour-betraying-british-citizens-abroad-who-cannot-vote

Expats have no sympathy from Jeremy Corbyn;

Hansard: Extension of Permitted Period of Overseas Residence
House of Commons Debate 1989;

api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1989/jul/05/extension-of-permitted-period-of

Mr.Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North)

"In a spirit of generosity, I tabled an amendment specifying 10 years. On reflection, I was probably a little too generous.I am sure that the Minister will be grateful for that and will accept my amendment."
"Twenty-five years is excessive in the extreme.People who have been resident abroad, working abroad, earning money abroad and probably not paying taxes abroad are not likely to be interested in politics in this country." "The Government's motive is to find a pool of voting fodder for the Tory party in the tax havens around the world."

"They are not interested in democratic movements in this country, because they have set themselves up in some other country and earn their money there. My 10-year rule would allow those people who have working contracts abroad—for example, those in the diplomatic service—to maintain a link with this country I believe that a period of 25 years is quite ridiculous and, therefore, I commend my amendment to the House."

If you live out of the uk for 15 years and don't change your legal status as citizen of the new country to make your life easier then surely that's proof of caring about Britain? I can't believe the attitude towards British expats on here by some posters.

There has to be a cut off point.

No there doesn't. There's no cut off point in most of Europe. You're a citizen, you can vote. End of.

I can't believe the attitude to British expats shown on here by some posters

NutsforNutella I know it's as if when you move abroad your nationality and all of the many traits and cultural loyalties that go with it, suddenly fly out of the window and you morph in to a "citizen of nowhere". What utter bollocks! You have only moved physically a few hundred miles, you haven't had a head transplant! Where I live in a Europe Zone One country, I am closer to my UK family than if I were living in Cumbria fhs!

I see that Mike Gapes left the Labour Party in February 2019 - in protest at Jeremy Corbyn's leadership.

TaMere I've said I think it's awful for OP but if, for arguments sake, a UK citizen left the day of their 18th birthday to live anywhere else, Australia for example.

They never came back to the UK, never paid taxes, settled in Oz, worked, had their kids in the education system there, used the health system, the works. Are they entitled to vote on what affects the lives of people in the UK 50, 60 years later purely because it's where they were born and what's on the passport they renew?

Like I said, I'm not happy with OP being messed around like everyone else with the result the way it is, but for all intents and purposes she had left the UK and made her life somewhere else. How long is it before you're considered as actually gone not one foot in each camp?

s irrelevant what anyone thinks/wishes/hopes. The law is the law

I know its not relevant thats why i i didnt say it was relevant

I find peoples opinions interesting...im always prepared to make an exception though

@RuggerHug if someone moves to Australia then they need to go through an immigration process which would presumably not be affected by policy changes in their original country.

UK citizens living elsewhere in the EU are doing so thanks to freedom of movement. Therefore Brexit directly affects them, probably more than most, and denying them a say is frankly reprehensible.

Are they entitled to vote on what affects the lives of people in the UK 50, 60 years later purely because it's where they were born and what's on the passport they renew?

Again, in most of Europe, yes, that is exactly how it works.

iwannaseehowitends

It was advisory.
www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/the-culture-secretary-said-the-eu-referendum-was-binding-it-wasnt

This is v relevant as this was the reason given as to why EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the rest of the EU were not given a vote. Only after the law was set around the referendum did the literature come out saying that we would abide by the result . It's not actual law just something a politician said.

Ugh @Clavinova that is infuriating!

The british ambassador to Norway said (just a few days ago) that it was still on the table for parliamentary debate, so I assume it'll go another few rounds.

I just don't have a party I believe in anymore, not with Corbyn behaving like an absolute dick.

Are they entitled to vote on what affects the lives of people in the UK 50, 60 years later purely because it's where they were born and what's on the passport they renew?

Yes because it affects them too.. why is this so difficult to understand?

You can’t have your cake and eat it. You decided not to live here for an extended period of time so you shouldn’t have a vote on what happens in a country you left.*

This. YABVU

*You can’t have your cake and eat it. You decided not to live here for an extended period of time so you shouldn’t have a vote on what happens in a country you left.

This. YABVU*

You can, and you should because it still affects the OP! FFS.

origami

I know im fixated with this

But do you have an idea of how long you feel someone should be away before they lose their vote?

The referendum wasn't legally binding but the 'politician' who said he would abide by the result wasn't just any old random politician - he was the Prime Minister.

I think the govt didn't bother sorting out who should vote and why because it was incomprehensible to them that the population wouldn't just do as it was told and vote to remain. Indicative of the outstanding arrogance and complacency of the political leadership and their utter ignorance regarding the population they were elected to represent.

Several posters have asked why in various circumstances long term residents abroad don't just get citizenship.

The quick answer is that they may not be able to. Simply being resident long term in a country typically isn't enough. Just as an example, here's a list of the essentially minimal requirements for gettin French citizenship if you're not married to a French spouse.

• be a long term resident,
• speak fluent French,
• have stable employment.
• have your main family links in France. (This one can be tricky if you're a couple of Brits).
• Be well integrated into French society. (This one will be a problem if you mostly hang out with other expats, even if your French is fluent).

I know people who have been resident in France for over 20 years and don't qualify for citizenship. Note that long term right to remain is not the same thing as citizenship.

^^It also costs quite a lot to get all the official documents ordered and translated (not to mention the time off work to sort it out).

All this thread seems to run around the idea that the OP wasn't interested in the country she had 'abandoned' or wasn't paying taxes.
What is the logic then in denying me, a French citizen living in the UK for over 15yrs the right to vote in a referendum? And the logic being my husband, because he is Indian, having that vote? The irony is my husband is on a permanent residency visa on the basis of him being married to me, a EU national.... Funny really!

And I am thankful the French government clearly takes a different view and hasn't suggested ending my voting rights anytime soon (I don't know if there is a cut off? I don't think so) and I will continue to exercise them even though I don't have any plans to move to France.

"The logic behind my husband" not 'being'

I completely agree. We have British passports and didn't get to vote although it will have an impact on our lives and children futures too.

We paid a lot of tax in the UK earlier in our lives, so we did contribute.

It has pushed us in the other direction of needing to become citizens of our EU country as soon as we possibly can!

Actually, it makes my blood boil that someone who fucked off to France ‘more than 15 yrs ago’ thinks they get a say in a county they abandoned.

What will really make your blood boil is that I DID get to vote despite having fucked off to the US 12 years ago.

Soz.

What will really make your blood boil is that I DID get to vote despite having fucked off to the US 12 years ago.

I don't know why you are trying to be smug when the rule was set at 15 years, you fell within the EU accepted limit, so well done I guess.

And my DH who has paid tax in the UK, employed people, paid corporation tax/VAT for his buSiness for the past 20 years wasn't able to vote as he hasn't converted to be a British resident (which iirc costs around £1600 to do)