AIBU to think it was unfair that I didn't get a vote (Brexit)

[Nicolamarlow1]

At the time of the referendum my DH and I had lived in France for more than 15 years and therefore we couldn't vote in the referendum (or in any other UK elections come to that). We are now back in the UK. Just because we lived there at the time didn't mean we were there forever. While we were in France we were still British citizens and there must be thousands of expats like us who were denied a vote on Brexit.

But it does affect the OP.

Surely even that is obvious

Some eejit upthread (can't be arsed to scroll back and check) claimed that anyone living abroad for any length of time at all should be stripped of their voting rights. They didn't specify that that excluded service for one's country or, I dunno, a two-week training course in Düsseldorf.

If you choose to move to a non Commonwealth county you lose it

Again, for the hard of reading, that is currently the case for elections. It is not the case for referenda where the electorate is not commensurate with that for general elections.

you were that worried about your right to vote in a country you did not live in then you could have moved back!

Of course everyone can uproot their lives to move back for the three months notice given. Max is right.

@Edwin, that argument applies to any life decision, not just emigrating. Should someone who chose to set up a small business be debarred from having a say on evolutions to business law because they sholdn't have counted on them staying the same?

Secondly, people who moved to the EU were not actually collaborating with the enemy. EU countries are our friends and allies on the international scene and part of that was a mutual agreement that citizens could emigrate if they so wished, which would increase mutual understanding. It is in Britain's interests to have well-integrated expats abroad. We are the country's best ambassadors.

Finally, there is a theme on this thread that British expats chose not to contribute to Britain, but to another country, that the choice to emigrate is a loss to the home country and a gain for the host country. I assume the same logic is applied to people immigrating to Britain ? That a Frenchman emigrating to Britain has chosen to contribute to Britain rather than France and should be thanked for that contribution ?

I'll add that across the EU the UK is in a significant minority in disenfranchising citizens abroad. By far the norm is for them to retain voting rights. So why such hostility to the idea in the UK as evidenced on this thread?

The attitude towards expats is shocking.

Would going on holiday for 2 weeks every year strip you of voting rights? I'm a dual national who's lived in my other country- I should be punished for that? My parents were expats and I shouldn't vote because if that? Not all people of voting age pay tax (student, benefits, retired...)

Some expats have paid more UK tax than residents. Some expats continue to pay UK tax as they may have assets in the uk eg property. The use of the word traitor is just nasty. If they didn't want to be British, don't you think that they'd become a citizen of the new country after 15 years?

Again, tax is irrelevant. When you pay tax you aren’t buying the right to vote.

If you leave the country for well over a decade, absolutely you should have no say in matters here. You don’t live here, you cannot make an informed decision because you don’t live here, and you shouldn’t have a right to vote on matters in a country you don’t live in.

It is interesting legally its 15 years out of the country

whattodo thinks over a decade

A few posters seem to think as soon as you leave the country ...one assumes there is some sort of caveat on that for holidays

Again, tax is irrelevant. When you pay tax you aren’t buying the right to vote

The vast majority of posters know this

There has been at least one poster who seems to think otherwise

If you leave the country for well over a decade, absolutely you should have no say in matters here

Why is this seemingly such a popular position in the UK when in the vast majority of other European countries it's accepted that citizens have the right to vote wherever they live? I wonder what it says about the British psyche and I suspect it's not flattering

YANBU. You are currently living in France as a EU citizen. Britain leaving the EU removes your EU citizenship and your rights in France. You should have been able to vote on that decision.

This. Same as E.U. Nationals who live here.

I don’t know why some people are being so arseholish.

It is interesting legally its 15 years out of the country

whattodo thinks over a decade

A few posters seem to think as soon as you leave the country ...one assumes there is some sort of caveat on that for holidays

It’s irrelevant what anyone thinks/wishes/hopes. The law is the law.

Would your residency in France help with getting dual citizenship. I would be trying to do that if I could!

I wonder what it says about the British psyche and I suspect it's not flattering

Considering the European court backed the decision maybe highlights your own ignorance and prejudice.

The law is the law.

Again, no. The gov.uk page on referenda here www.gov.uk/elections-in-the-uk/referendums says you have to be eighteen to vote, but in the SCottish IndyRef that was lowered to sixteen. Because referenda are rare the electorate is basically decided on a case by case basis, so someone decided that it made sense for Indian nationals in the UK to be able to vote as commonwealth citizens, but not British citizens abroad. Or rather, they didn't give it a second's thought, but they could easily have done.

I think that UK citizens living in the EU should have been given a say on Brexit, since it directly affected them. I don't believe UK citizens living outside the EU should get a say. I wouldn't allow expats to vote in General Elections since they don't live with the consequences.

I wouldn't allow EU citizens to vote here, irrespective of whether they pay tax. If you want a say, then get citizenship. My brother lives and works in the USA, is married to an American and is raising his kids there. But he doesn't want citizenship, doesn't feel American, so (rightly imo) doesn't get to vote.

Expats should definitely have been given the right to vote! The whole point was that we were extending our rights as UK citizens to live in another Member State enjoying nearly the same rights as if it were our own country. Which is the whole point of free movement! We shouldn't be punished because of it.

Not everyone is entirely able to control the projectory of their lives in minute detail. Some of us moved as trailing spouses. Some because it was the only job we could find. Some of us even run businesses that facilitate and defend British interests abroad! Fancy that!

And the idea that we are not properly informed about the issues because we live abroad is absolute hooey! We have close family in the UK, we are back and forth a lot, we listen to and watch the same news programmes and read the same news articles that UK based people do - just as often - and we care deeply about the future of our home country. Not only that but I bet most of us were far more informed about the potential problems that Brexit could create for British business and influence than the average Brit.

I bloody love the UK - I miss it hugely - I care deeply about its future and I can't bear to see it stab itself in the heart for no logical reason, which is why this shit show is so fecking painful to watch.

I know the EC backed the decision, I'm not ignorant. Nor am I prejudiced, I think that label applies rather more to posters who believe expats have "abandoned" their home countries by finding gainful employment abroad.

I love the way that people don't think expats are affected by British politics when they leave the country

OP you are SO not being unreasonable. This law is incredibly unfair and I also hate it. In good news there has been made a proposal to change this law and it's currently set to be debated in Parliament so we can hope that it is changed soon with any luck.

What is unique is that this referendum vote stripped British citizens of their freedom of movement rights - which they were in fact exercising. It’s quite surprising that this wasn’t a breach of the human right to the peaceful enjoyment of property under the European Convention of Human Rights.

The reason cited why people weren't give the chance to vote as it was supposed to be an ADVISORY referendum , which it clearly wasnt.

I don't think this was an ADVISORY referendum. David Cameron did promise to abide by the result, it's just that he arrogantly expected the result to go his way and therefore led a poor campaign and put no plans in place in case the vote was to to leave. I think we all voted in the knowledge that the result was going to be upheld.

I love the way that people don't think expats are affected by British politics when they leave the country 

So true. Yet many in the UK have an opinion of Trump as Leader of the Free World.

Being a member of the EU and residing in another country as a British citizen was one of the most important issues. It’s shocking that people who were taking advantage of freedom of movement weren’t given a say

This. Of course you should have had a vote.