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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think it was unfair that I didn't get a vote (Brexit)

232 replies

Nicolamarlow1 · 31/03/2019 18:56

At the time of the referendum my DH and I had lived in France for more than 15 years and therefore we couldn't vote in the referendum (or in any other UK elections come to that). We are now back in the UK. Just because we lived there at the time didn't mean we were there forever. While we were in France we were still British citizens and there must be thousands of expats like us who were denied a vote on Brexit.

OP posts:
SnowyAlpsandPeaks · 31/03/2019 21:38

🤦‍♀️Can’t believe you are even asking this question. Sunday night must be slow.....

edwinbear · 31/03/2019 21:39

pointy certainly less than 15 yrs

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 31/03/2019 21:41

pointy

That's exactly what edwin said

No length of residency at all

edwinbear · 31/03/2019 21:41

Actually, it makes my blood boil that someone who fucked off to France ‘more than 15 yrs ago’ thinks they get a say in a county they abandoned.

edwinbear · 31/03/2019 21:42

country

pointythings · 31/03/2019 21:44

So edwin do you think my DD, born here, never lived anywhere else, should have a vote? I mean, either it's residency based or it's nationality based, which is it?

And how much less residency abroad do you think is an appropriate threshold for removing voting rights?

TaMereAPoilDevantPrisu · 31/03/2019 21:44

you chose not to be allowed to vote as that’s the law

Well, no. Referenda aren't elections. There is no standard prescribed electorate for referenda in the UK, for instance members of the House of Lords were allowed to vote though they can't vote in general elections. The Scottish IndyRef allowed 16 yr olds and EU citizens resident in Scotland to vote. So they could easily have simply chosen the categories whose rights are most affected - Brits in Europe and EU citizens in the UK - in the electorate.

Original poster
Nicolamarlow1 · 31/03/2019 21:46

Edwinbear so if I had come back to the UK after 14 years, that would have been OK? And I never "abandoned" the UK. I was back in the UK regularly and now live here permanently. I don't know why you are so vitriolic about someone who has lived abroad. Lots of people choose to do it.

OP posts:
TaMereAPoilDevantPrisu · 31/03/2019 21:47

"a county they abandoned"

What's with the emotive language? I happen to live in France because of the nature of my job and because my husband is French. I haven't "abandoned" the UK any more than I "abandoned" Suffolk when I went to live in Oxfordshire.

Rinceoir · 31/03/2019 21:47

I’m an Irish citizen, living in UK with my Irish husband. We both had a vote but my Italian neighbours who are Italian and Austrian could not vote. Doesn’t make much sense!

edwinbear · 31/03/2019 21:48

pointy if your DD is eligible to vote in elections, she should, of course, have been eligible to vote in the referendum.

DantesInferno · 31/03/2019 21:49

DantesInferno Sun 31-Mar-19 19:04:56
SheRaTheAllPowerful s husband should have had a vote

You don't live here, you haven't lived here for 15 years, why should you have a say?

this is what i said earlier, your dd should have a vote, its a shame that she doesnt want a British Passport, but the important thing is her life is here

TaMereAPoilDevantPrisu · 31/03/2019 21:49

Yeah let's strip the military and diplomatic service of their voting rights, makes perfect sense yeah.

Yika · 31/03/2019 21:50

YANBU. I also couldn't vote. I live abroad but I am a British citizen and I will also return to the UK at some point. I feel highly invested in the future of the country.

In the other countries I am familiar with you keep your vote no matter how long you live abroad. The 15 year cutoff is very arbitrary, and it means I cannot vote in parliamentary elections in any country, so I feel totally disenfranchised.

It's ridiculous to say things like 'wtf would you still get a say in a county you disliked so much you left' - people leave for all kinds of reasons, opportunity, family, work necessity. The fact that you live abroad doesn't say anything about your feelings towards your home country.

As a citizen you should retain your citizenship rights.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 31/03/2019 21:51

Tamere

The thing is

Who is going to explain to the Military staff and their families that they lost their voting rights

Baggsy not me!!!

edwinbear · 31/03/2019 21:51

OP I also lived abroad for a number of years, and when I made the decision to move, part of the decision making process was knowing I’d lose my right to vote for a while. I still chose to move and accepted that meant I lost my right to vote.

pointythings · 31/03/2019 21:52

edwinbear what I'm trying to point out here (sigh) is the lack of logic in your position. My DD's eligibility is immaterial - in 2016 she was 15 and so not of voting age. She is also not a UK national, she has a Dutch passport and a US one. She is eligible to vote in local elections as of last January, though that will probably change after Brexit happens.

However:

  • Commonwealth nationals were allowed to vote in the referendum, irrespective of how long they had been in the UK.
  • UK nationals who had lived abroad for more than 15 years were not.

So what's the criterion, residency or nationality? Because the status quo is entirely lacking in reason and sense..

And don't ask why we haven't applied for UK citizenship. We don't want it, because it would cost us our Dutch citizenship, and right now that EU passport is worth a damn sight more than a UK one.

RuggerHug · 31/03/2019 21:53

So, you were an immigrant in France for 15 years and think that's not long enough for you not to have been able to vote, it should have been obvious you might have come back one day?

I'm sorry OP, Brexit is a shambles and affects all British people in the EU and vice versa but did you care passionately about all things British people voted for in that time, or just one that affects you?

edwinbear · 31/03/2019 21:54

people leave for all kinds of reasons, opportunity, family, work necessity. The fact that you live abroad doesn't say anything about your feelings towards your home country

Yes. But if you do your research properly, you know that you lose your right to a say in how that country operates. And you decide to leave anyway, so it can’t be that important to you.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 31/03/2019 21:55

A minute ago edwin you were agreeing that anyone who leave the country for any length of time should lose their right to vote

Is that not how you feel anymore

As i said i can see why there is a 15 year cutoff even though i might not agree with it

Tr1skel1on · 31/03/2019 21:56

OP I haven't RTFT but I'm right with you.

I live in a crown dependency, we will be hugely affected but nope, no vote for us. I didn't want to read the debate, I would love to join in but I can't, and it makes me extremely pissed off

TaMereAPoilDevantPrisu · 31/03/2019 21:57

edwinbear as I've just posted that might apply to elections, though Cameron promised to change that but didn't follow through. It doesn't apply to the electorate for referenda. People from Malta and Cyprus were allowed to vote, but British citizens weren't. Just another aspect to the massive clusterfuck Brexit turned into.

edwinbear · 31/03/2019 21:58

pointy she was 15 when the referendum took place. So obviously not eligible to vote. Neither were my 7 yr old & 5 yr old but I’m not up in arms about it.

TaMereAPoilDevantPrisu · 31/03/2019 22:01

edwin missing the point again there by a country mile...

edwinbear · 31/03/2019 22:04

But it’s pretty clear isn’t it? If you remain in the Commonwealth you keep your vote. If you choose to move to a non Commonwealth county you lose it. Why on earth would you not take this into consideration when you are deciding to leave the UK? It’s not hard is it.