AIBU to think it was unfair that I didn't get a vote (Brexit)

[Nicolamarlow1]

At the time of the referendum my DH and I had lived in France for more than 15 years and therefore we couldn't vote in the referendum (or in any other UK elections come to that). We are now back in the UK. Just because we lived there at the time didn't mean we were there forever. While we were in France we were still British citizens and there must be thousands of expats like us who were denied a vote on Brexit.

M4

Thank you very much

NicokaMarlow.

Most of them also have families in the UK so should be able to vote on issues that affect them.”

Presumably their families, of voting age, have their own votes. Are you suggesting another, proxy vote on behalf of other people? Don’t think that exists anywhere in the world?

MrsBertBibby

“It's perfectly normal for overseas citizens to vote. I have not lived in the US since I was 4 years old, but as a US citizen by birthright, I can vote in Federal and State elections”

Perfectly normal to the US. Not here.

Lots of people would be eligible to vote if it was now . You weren’t at the time .

There is a petition about this on the HoC website. I did post it on the Brexit board but mumsnet moved it to the petitions bit (where no one goes) because someone reported my thread...

ChinamL

'YABU. Brexit aside, you want people no longer living in a county to be able vote and have other people live with consequences you yourself don't have to deal with'

But the point is that the long-term British residents on the Continent, along with the EU citizens in the UK, may be precisely the ones to have to deal with the most serious consequences: possibly having to move from their long-term home, or at least being put to significant effort and expense to stay in their own homes. I agree that people, who are British citizens but not long-term residents, should not vote in General Elections. I also agree that British long-term residents in countries outside the EU should not have had a vote in the Referendum, as Brexit doesn't affect them directly. But those who are most affected should have had the vote!

So are you saying that because I didn't pay UK tax while I was in France, that I should have no say in UK affairs?

Well that's what the government rules say, you presumably knew this when you decided to move abroad?

French law is irrelevant.

Anyway, with any luck there'll be a second referendum and you can vote in that one!

Langrish
Why does there need to be a cut off? As long as I’m an American citizen (and don’t go to prison) I’m eligible to vote in all the elections. Just because I moved doesn’t mean I don’t care about my home country anymore.

“I guess there's really no point in explaining. Most people with a single brain cell can work it out for themselves. It isnt difficult.”

I agree that people who are non-resident and don’t pay UK tax for 15 years have effectively voluntarily given up their voting rights.
That sort of comment is completely unnecessary though, isn’t it.

M4J4 I am hoping for a second referendum and I will definitely be voting in it.

langrish

Its cos I queried the penny bun comment

at least thats what it seemed like

If it's an consolation OP, I was sick and didn't use my vote, so I feel bad too (would have voted remain).

It's perfectly normal for overseas citizens to vote. I have not lived in the US since I was 4 years old, but as a US citizen by birthright, I can vote in Federal and State elections”

But US citizens still have to pay some US tax even when living abroad, don't they?

I googled as I had to know
“having the 'penny and the bun' means having two things which cannot be had together. If you are buying a bun that costs a penny, it is an exchange and you cannot have both.” Curiosity satiated

GingerCat

Because that’s what our law stipulates. The OP would have been well aware of that when they decided to leave and cease paying UK taxes over 15 years ago.

More importantlyIMO, is why many EU citizens living and working here weren’t eligible to vote: for what it’s worth, I think everyone, everywhere should have the right to vote in their country of residence. Just obvious to me 🤷‍♀️

Why are people equating paying tax with the right to vote? you don’t have to ever have paid tax to vote, that’s not how it works.

More unfair that EU citizens who have lived here and paid taxes here for 20+ years didn't have the right to vote.

David Cameron promised to rescind the 15 year voting ban rule as part of the 2015 manifesto. And then reneged on that. So I think OP is allowed to feel aggrieved.

Countries are allowed to set their own rules though. I happen to think the UK way of doing it is a pile of bollocks (as a Dutch citizen I am still allowed to vote in parliamentary elections in the Netherlands though I haven't lived there for almost 22 years) but it's the UK's self-chosen bollocks.

I think allowing commonwealth nationals no matter how recently arrived to vote was ridiculous though, But then everything about Brexit is ridiculous.

Why are people equating paying tax with the right to vote? you don’t have to ever have paid tax to vote, that’s not how it works.

Exactly. Tax is irrelevant. You don’t pay tax as a right to vote.

You threw away your chance to vote when you left the country for well over a decade, and did so knowing you would lose your right to vote.

If you don’t live here, you shouldn’t have a say in what goes on here. It’s really that simple.

I agree with you, OP - I also was unable to vote, because I'd been living in Ireland since 1999 - but I'm still a British citizen, with family here (I'm in the UK at the moment) and I spend a lot of my time in the country, caring for my aged father - though have never 'officially' moved back. On the other hand, the fact I was unable to vote either way means that no one can hold me accountable for the monumental fuck up it's turned into.

MJ4J US citizens have to file a US tax return even if they live elsewhere, but they are not double taxed unless they earn over $80000 a year. My late husband was a US citizen living in the UK and he faithfully filed his returns annually - but he always got rebates and never paid anything.

Why are people equating paying tax with the right to vote? you don’t have to ever have paid tax to vote, that’s not how it works

Because apparently money is the measure of everything.

Also in some quarters if you are British and move abroad you are a citizen of nowhere, a traitor, an enemy of the people and generally lack moral fibre so of course you should lose your right to vote .

It's really that simple

Well, it's not though, because as we've established lots of perfectly respectable countries don't have the same rule and let their citizens have a say wherever they live.

Voting rights are not typically based on paying tax - if they were, we would debar people on benefits from voting. They're based on the right of a citizen to have a say on decisions that affect them personally.

On that basis, I'd say that it's reasonable that long term residents abroad are not able to vote in general elections in the UK, even if it is an unusual policy. But UK citizens resident in the EU are potentially very heavily impacted by Brexit - far more so than UK citizens still in the UK - and whilst it's doubtless legal, it's still unfair that people should be debarred a vote on a question that could lead to them losing their jobs or their homes.