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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To invite all Mumsnetters to the Brexit Rally in Parliament Square tomorrow afternoon/evening?

782 replies

SunnyInGrimsby · 28/03/2019 22:21

OK, it's doubtful Brexit is going to happen any time soon but definitely worth coming along and standing up for what we voted for.

Very little coverage in the media - unfortunately no full page spreads in the Standard for us....

It will be going on until early evening so still worth turning up if you can't get the day off work. Lots of great speakers including Julia Hartley Brewer, Claire Fox, Kate Hoey et al.

OP posts:

Thread gallery

Her0utdoors · 29/03/2019 11:37

Don't you know we have kids to put to bed and the cleaning to do? That and I'd rather eat glass than support Brexit.

ItsInTheSpoon · 29/03/2019 11:41

@Kko1986 I agree with you - but this thread has descended into a vicious attack on Leave voters - just read back and look at all the disgraceful insults. And those are by Remain voters, who claim to be more dignified, intelligent etc etc....!

ReleaseTheBats · 29/03/2019 11:42

But why would the word 'traitor' ever apply to people who eg: voted remain, Bats?

Where did I say it could? (Hint: I didn't).

You cited an article about people calling politicians traitors to a cause. I said I'm okay with people calling others traitors. How you get from that to that I think people who voted remain are or should be called traitors, I don't know. Perhaps I wasn't clear, but that's not what I meant and not what I said.

Icantreachthepretzels · 29/03/2019 11:44

Yes. I don't do it myself but I believe its okay for people to use that word if they think it applies.

So if I tell you I firmly believe all leave voters are traitors because they have voted to harm their country then that is OK with you? I can't say they didn't know what they were voting for in case I'm implying their stupid ... but it's OK to call them traitors?

OK thanks. I will do.

ReleaseTheBats · 29/03/2019 11:44

@Langrish It's always best to RTFT if you want to understand what people actually mean.

SkiFiend · 29/03/2019 11:47

Quite shocked that someone would see fit to use the word "traitor" about Remain voters. I think the narrative of what's happened has taken a dangerous turn- the truth is that we are all on the same side, Leave and Remain, in wanting what we think is best for our country. I think Leave campaigners and MPs have tried to present what's going on as a battle of the plucky UK against the EU, and that anyone therefore not in favour of Brexit is on the EU's side and hence against the UK. It's absolute nonsense, as is the whole "we won, you lost" thing- we stand or fall together. If leaving the EU is such a great idea then we've all won, and if (as seems likely) it's a terrible idea then we've all lost.

I find it utterly depressing how the press and certain MPs have tried to present our current situation as victory for Remainers. No one is happy about what's happened, no one is celebrating the mess we're in. The only people popping champagne corks are those who are hoping for a shot at the PM's job. Brexit is and always was a proxy battle for leadership of the Conservative party, and now it's emerging in its final form.

Isitmybathtimeyet · 29/03/2019 11:49

The traitor issue really scares me to be honest. It's the rhetoric of extremity. In modern Britain it would be extremely difficult to be a 'traitor' outside the intelligence world. I would say in fact that those who have come closest to it are those who have recently publicly said that they have asked foreign powers to vote against UK interests, but I wouldn't even want to use the word there.

The mainstream Leave-leaning media has called traitors:

MPs carrying out the work that they do in a Parliamentary democracy
Judges making rulings according to the rule of law
Public figures who have questioned aspects of Brexit

The use of 'traitor' is an attack on free speech, an attack on the nature of democracy in our country and an attack on the rule of law. It's incitement to hatred and to civil disobedience. It's dangerous.

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 29/03/2019 11:50

Bats, I've tried to engage politely with you but every time you post something you then backtrack on it when challenged. Have you ever consider a career in politics?

However, it's rather tiring and I really should be working so I'm going to bow out now.

Enjoy your Brexit.

ReleaseTheBats · 29/03/2019 11:53

OK thanks. I will do

I've clarified my point. I don't think remain voters are traitors. I don't call people traitors. But I think it is okay for people to use the word. If you want to call leave voters traitors, I think you are wrong, offensive and divisive in the same way as if you called all leave voters thick or racist. But I don't think calling someone a traitor is on a par with threats of violence, or violence.

Strange logic there btw. "I think you are wrong to say something so I'm going to say it".

Langrish · 29/03/2019 11:54

*ReleaseTheBats

*Thank you for your words of wisdom, I’ll be sure to bear them in mind.

Traitors in conjunction with remainers (or leavers) doesn’t work in any context.
Most people who vote believe they’re doing the best for their country, however I’ll-advised they may be.

clairemcnam · 29/03/2019 11:55

I don't understand why anyone who is not looking for trouble, would attend a march where the police warn there could be violence. It sounds scary.

Icantreachthepretzels · 29/03/2019 11:56

Quite shocked that someone would see fit to use the word "traitor" about Remain voters

I've been called a traitor whilst on a march in York. I've been called a Nazi whilst on a march in Leeds. Never been called names in London because the crowds are too big they don't dare start.
I am still waiting to find out if the right to call someone a traitor - as long as you believe it applies - cuts both ways. After all - it's only the one group that has voted to remove our citizenship and our rights related to that and seriously harm the economy.

ReleaseTheBats · 29/03/2019 11:56

Bats, I've tried to engage politely with you but every time you post something you then backtrack on it when challenged. Have you ever consider a career in politics?

I haven't backtracked on the traitor issue. You misinterpreted my comment and I clarified. This must be disappointing if you just want an argument and to score points rather than have a discussion. It's sad these threads are so much like this.

derxa · 29/03/2019 11:56

From outside of this (thank fuck) I see very clear differences of intellect, class, dignity, and common sense between Leavers and Remainers Oh the snobbery!

Langrish · 29/03/2019 11:57

“ But I don't think calling someone a traitor is on a par with threats of violence, or violence. “

Tantamount to. Tell that to the family of the next MP who’s injured or murdered because some nutter seized on newspaper headlines or online accusations of “traitor”.

ReleaseTheBats · 29/03/2019 11:58

Quite shocked that someone would see fit to use the word "traitor" about Remain voters.

I didn't say this. If anyone else wants to claim I did, please quote where you think I did.

Icantreachthepretzels · 29/03/2019 11:58

Oh sorry. cross post So you believe it is OK to call a person a traitor if they believe it applies (though you don't do it). However when a remainer does it they are 'wrong, offensive and divisive'.

Forgive me my ignorance but ... surely if you believe an action is 'wrong, offensive and divisive' then you don't believe it is OK to do? Unless you think it is OK to do things that are wrong?

BercowsSilkTie · 29/03/2019 11:59

Langrish I'm not sure. Think there were about 200 at the start in Sunderland but lots of reporters included in that number. Then there was the 10 vehicle go slow.

Kko1986 · 29/03/2019 12:01

@itsinthespoon I know it's not right it's not fair but I find ignoring it is better. I won't get involved in a slanting match as I have always said lead by example and I want my daughter to know she can express herself but respect other people have their own views.
I say to the leavers who are so tired of being spoken to like dirt. Who get people being so nasty just because we dare to want different keep you head held high.
I ask people to avoid being nasty as it doesn't achieve anything. And at a time where mental health is very much in the news please remember words can hurt.
To all on the march today stay safe and don't get involved in the hate stand for the brexit you want but don't get violent that's not who we need to be.
My heart is there with you my body is going to be at work as a mere cleaner lol.
To those who voted remain, respect to you for having your passion but don't forget what our older generations taught us if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all. That goes for the leavers too.

Icantreachthepretzels · 29/03/2019 12:02

Strange logic there btw. "I think you are wrong to say something so I'm going to say it".

That wasn't my logic. My logic was - we're not allowed to say you don't know what you voted for, we're not allowed to say you believed the lies, we're not allowed to reference the racist element of the vote ... but apparently you think 'traitor' is a perfectly acceptable thing to call someone. I need to call the people who have taken my rights and seriously harmed my future prospects something - and you're OK with traitor. Traitor it is then.

But now it turns out that is also 'wrong, offensive and divisive' which begs the question - why are you OK wit people doing it?

Langrish · 29/03/2019 12:02

BercowsSilkTie

Didn’t mean Farage’s shuffle. I might be imagining things but I thought there was a leave means leave rally in London a few months ago that mustered about 3,000? I can’t confirm because I gave up on googling it after the first 4 pages of reports of the people’s vote March.
Anyway, It clearly made an huge impact 😁

TheGhostOfBrexit · 29/03/2019 12:03

Oh heck, I'll be too busy burying myself...

Greennikki · 29/03/2019 12:04

I voted leave. I’m not a traitor . Not a racist . Not uneducated. Not bitter or rude towards people who have different opinions than me. I am a good person and I refuse to believe otherwise based on my vote in a referendum .

ReleaseTheBats · 29/03/2019 12:06

pretzels honestly I think I've spelt out my position fairly clearly.

Calling leave or remain voters traitors - not okay, divisive, etc etc

Calling politicians traitors - I wouldn't do it but I don't think its the outrage many suggest and I don't think it is on a par with violence or threats of violence.

PortiaCastis · 29/03/2019 12:06

Ah yes the 10 vehicle go slow in Cornwall but they were pulled over onto a lay-by by the police and the 2 leading drivers charged with inconsiderate driving so that went very well indeed, however the A30 is renown for traffic jams especially at weekends so nobody noticed a lot of extra disruption

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