to not want to emigrate?

[pastaparadise]

DP is desperate to emigrate. He doesn't like the area we live in (too wet, too busy/ bad traffic), and wants to live abroad. He's recently decided he wants us to emigrate to New Zealand. We went on holiday years ago and both loved it, & he could get a working visa.

However, I am reluctant to leave. Dm is widowed, ill and old, and i currently live very close and see her a couple of times a week/ help out (closest sib is 3 hours drive away). I would feel terrible leaving her, guilty and very sad about this. DP feels that she should move closer to my sibling and go into a home - problem sorted.

We have 2 young dc. Dp feels i am stopping them having a much better life overseas, but i worry we will be completely cut off from friends and family, and with young children it will be impractical/ too expensive to travel back to the UK much (we dont see his family much, but i get on well with my sibling and our dc with their cousins). Worth mentioning that whilst quality of life looks great in nz, we actually live in a lovely house in a lovely safe place (although the commute is shitty neither of us have to do it often).

I also worry that should we go, dp wont want to come back and that i will get stuck their regardless. However, dp is very resentful that i won't go and thinks that I'm being selfish putting me and my mum above the needs of our own family. As history, prior to dm being ill, df was ill for a long time before dying, so i didnt want to move pre dc (although dp never had a proper job offer to go anywhere). Dp says he feels trapped and feels if we wait for dm to die before we go it will be too late for lots of reasons.

I dont want dp to be unhappy and increasingly resentful, but also dont want to emigrate so far away. AIBU to say no?

Really grateful for all these replies. He keeps making me feel IABU for blocking a move that would be better for our family, but not only do i not want to go due to dm, having read pp now i am very wary of getting stuck there.

oldfool sorry to hear you're in a similar position. It's crap.

swingofthings it's helpful to question some of my assumptions, thanks.
I would like to make him happier (not least as he's currently so miserable to live with!). The agreement was i would up my hours once youngest dc is in school (2 years off). I currently work 2 days plus one evening shift but have some flexibility so hoping to work 4 days but school hours in future.

i actually dont think his job is the problem - he isnt particularly stressed by work and can often work at home. I would be willing (though wouldnt jump at it) to up my hours now and him to reduce, but he says his work wouldn't allow that. I dont think working less but doing more childcare would make him happier in reality, i think its much more about being resentful of me.

I've said I'd consider relocating within the uk if he wants to (which would make life a lot harder for me), but he thinks it would be hard to get a job in any area he likes. I have also agreed reluctantly that we could downsize our house as he complains the upkeep/ bills are too much. I feel like he has unrealistic views of everything being better for us in NZ, but in return he thinks I am happy to settle for less than we should and block everything. He is barely civil to dm when he sees her now as he holds her responsible.

He's suggested a family holiday to NZ this summer to scope it out, but it would cost £££ and i dont even feel i have the energy for that let alone moving there!!

I agree with lots of PPs. If you're not going to go, tell him that's the case, once and for all. Be upfront and lay your cards on the table.

My husband always knew I fancied at least a stint abroad, if he had kyboshed it, even for a good and valid reason, I'm not sure what would have happened to us. (luckily he was up for it!)

He sounds tired and stressed and lifeless. I sympathise with him. But his attitude to your mother does seem callous.

*The Hague convention - you need the other parent to agree that you can move to a different country with your children, or you will be considered to abduct them.

Is this the case when you move to any other country? Canada? New Zealand?

holidayshopping any country that has signed up to The Hague convention is affected by this. I'm not sure which they are, but I believe it's most 'Western' countries (apologies if that's an outdated term!). So if your OH takes your DC from the UK to their home country, if that country had signed up to The Hague Convention, they would be forced to bring them back.

Conversely, in the OPs situation, I would imagine they'd have to have been living there for a few years (i.e. it had become their 'home') for the Convention to take effect.

Happy to be corrected if my understanding is incorrect!

Here you go - long list.
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/hague-convention-countries//_

It won’t be a holiday to NZ though, it will be a mindfield

If you don’t go, you’re not giving it a chance and being closed minded
If you do go you’re given a clear amber light

Sorry op but your stick between the devil and the blue sea

He's barely civil to your mother who has dementia? He's behaving like a petulant child and seems to think of your mother as a thing to be dumped on someone rather than a person.

Will he support you through your mother's illness and end of life care or will he just be snidely remarking that you deserve the feelings it will give you? He sounds very callous and uncaring.

Obviously don't go. You don't want to, and the relationship isn't even that strong anyway.

I wouldn't even go on the holiday. It'll be fantastically expensive, and neither the expense nor the journey will be worth it with young kids.

I couldn’t tolerate a man who was so unpleasant. He cannot be civil to your DM, he wants you to be the main breadwinner now the real hard labour with the DC has been done, he complains all the time that he is unhappy, etc, etc.

He needs some counselling. If he is not happy in himself now, why on earth does he think he will be happy in New Zealand? It’s not a panacea for his misery.

I would be very firm with him. You do not want to move and it is not better for the DCs. He needs to grow up and realise that family life is challenging at times.

I think there are several issues, all linked, going on here.

I will preface my response with this: if you really do not want to emigrate then you shouldn't do it. It is hard and not to be undertaken lightly, you both really need to want it to work for it do so. It is clear that you don't, so you shouldn't emigrate. And your DH shouldn't try to force or blackmail you into it- that is absolutely not fair to you.

It is unfortunate that you were open to considering a move abroad in the past (even if not 100% sure) as I think this may have given him false hope. BUT, ultimately, if you don't want to go now then that is all that matters.

However, your DH sounds deeply unhappy. That doesn't excuse his attitude towards your mum, which is childish and callous- but sometimes when we are hurt/angry/unhappy, we don't always behave well (a reason, never an excuse). Does your mum take up a lot of your time? Not that it would be wrong if that were the case. I wonder if he feels everyone else's needs (your mum, your siblings, yours) come first and he resents your Mum because of that. I stress again that being rude to your mum isn't right, nor is just expecting you to put her into a care home without a second thought, but if this is out of character for him then I would be interested in what had brought about this change.

I wonder if he has harboured this wish to emigrate or live abroad as an adventure for some time, thought you were on-board (or persuadable), and is now bitterly disappointed- seeing it as a "now or never" and realising his dream is slipping from his grasp? Before it was always "not now, but maybe next year/in a few years", whereas now he knows it won't happen.

It does sound like you have a number of things you are happy about in life- nice area, nice house, happy with your work-life balance (and I do understand that he was in agreement with these choices). Your DH is clearly not happy though. I love my DH and if I really thought he was deeply unhappy and resentful, then I'd want to try and help make things better if this were possible (recognising that sometimes it isn't)- even if it made things not quite as great for me. Do you feel like that about your DP? If you don't, then I think that suggests your relationship is possible already on shaky grounds. Equally, he should be prepared to see that forcing you to move abroad for him would make you very unhappy.

I think it would be helpful for you both to talk about why your DH is so unhappy and resentful. Does he feel that his desires/views are not important to you? Or less important than your need to care for your mum and keep the status quo, which works for you? If so, I can understand why he might feel resentful (even if he isn't right in his assumption that you put these other factors before him). Or is it really ALL about this emigration issue. If you can both understand the issues from each others point of view it may be easier to work out where to go from here.

Equally, your DP needs to carefully consider whether following his dream is the right thing for his family, as opposed to doing something he would like to try. It's a big thing to uproot children from their home and family, to move to the other side of the world without a support network. Has he really thought this through?

Good luck OP, I don't think either of you is 100% to blame.

Id love to leave this area. We've found the perfect house, could retire and run our own business in this other area. But my parents are getting old and having health issues, and there's absolutely no way I will leave this area while they're alive. So while I love travel and have lived in other countries, I would be on your side on this one.

the boring sheep countryside idyll
What a load of shit.

Some really stupid misconceptions about NZ here. NZ is NOT 10 years behind the UK. The education system is also not extremely poor or whatever terminology was used.

Maybe y’all are thinking about Australia which genuinely IS 10 years behind NZ

I feel for you OP. I live in Australia but we’re thinking about relocating to either NZ or NI and it’s a big decision.

That’s a good post swingofthings.

He sounds so unhappy OP. Emigrating clearly isn’t the answer for you as a family as you don’t want it, or at least not so far away. But he needs some sort of help here, and although it’s not fair to put all his unhappiness on your shoulders, you need to compromise as you are partners moving forward together or your relationship will fall apart/just exist on parallel paths.

In your posts you say, “He keeps making me feel IABU for blocking a move that would be better for our family”.

But why would it be better?

• you’d be miserable
• the relationship most likely won’t survive the stress and resentment
• would the kids be happier?
• would the kids miss friends and family?
• would their education not be as good?

I think what he MEANS (and is trying to guilt you into) is... ”He keeps making me feel IABU for blocking a move that would be better for HIM”

He probably not as much resentful as he is envious of you. Something is affecting him and making him dream of a quieter life, slower life, hence fantasising about NZ. He thinks you enjoy a slower life right now, so yes he thinks you have it good and he doesn't.

If it is not his job that is making him feel this way, what is it? Does he commute? If so for how long? Even if he works from home sometimes, commuting, be it in packed late trains or car traffic can reach the point of utter misery and make you dream of going somewhere where all that is around you are fields and sheep.

It's not nice to leave with someone who is miserable all the time and make you feel guilty that you are not. It makes you resent them for not letting you enjoy your happy and balance life. However, I think it is worse to live with someone who is happy and balanced, know you're not yet seem unwilling to consider any chances so their would be happier - and in turn make you happier too by proxy. It makes you question how much they love you and resent their selfishness.

I agree with tbroughthickandthin, if you don't show willingness to accept his unhappiness and do something to help, he will reach the point when he will convince himself you don't love him, stop loving you and decide that he doesn't care anymore and do something for himself, pack his bags and go who knows where to find that release. You really need to listen to him explain what in his current life make him how he is and discuss options.

Also he seems to hold a lot of resentment in general towards you.

Emmigrating is not a band-aid to put over your problems.

Emmigrating will amplify your problems.

Honestly, if he can’t find a job in the UK how on earth is he going to find one in NZ.

Also the relationship issues sounds quite deep

I would 100% not be moving. You are also incredibly vulnerable I’d be looking to up those hours.

Do you rent or have a mortgage? Given the cost of buying/selling I can’t see downsizing will really save that much money long term

After his comments about going without you and not the kids I would be very careful about him getting you all to go so he has his kids there, and you either end up stuck and unable to leave or leaving because you split and no longer have a right to remain. I wouldn't ever do anything to risk losing my kids. Stay put OP, he just wants to get his kids out of the country the only way he can, which is with you and your consent.

Pastap it sounds like this is nothing about moving to NZ, but rather your partner is trying to engineer a split. How old is he?

DP is desperate to emigrate. He doesn't like the area we live in (too wet, too busy/ bad traffic), and wants to live abroad. He's recently decided he wants us to emigrate to New Zealand. We went on holiday years ago and both loved it, & he could get a working visa.

To be honest he sounds unhappy with his life and thinks a move to a place he once had a lovely holiday will make it all right again. It won't. Location is not the source of his unhappiness. All the family have to want to go 100% to make it work. I used to work in relocating people abroad and, even those 100% determined to make it work, found it very hard going.

The fact he hardly speaks to your DM as he thinks she is to 'blame' for your reluctance to move tells me a lot about him and his lack of compassion. The fact he'd move there without you if you had no DC also tells me a lot.

I agree with PP that this might be his way of wanting out of the marriage. Sorry OP.

My advice is not to go, you'd be miserable.

If it's the work/home balance he feels strongly about, could he drop one day a week and you do an extra one? Maybe if he felt more equality with what you both get to do he would be happier.
I really think moving to nz would not work, you would resent him in the way he is resenting you now. Just because he doesn't care for family like you doesn't mean he should be able to.dismiss that as a valid reason for staying put.

It sounds to me like he's very unhappy, but that he is also unhappy because you are not similarly unhappy, if you know what I mean. Like he resents your contentment with your life.

What is it he actually wants to change? Is it where he lives? Or is it what he does? How long he does it for? Or that he has the obligations and responsibilities of a husband and a father? If, when it comes down to tin tacks, it's the last of these, then I can 100% guarantee that emigrating to NZ will not fix that.

(Also, just fyi, yes, NZ is a signatory to the Hague Convention).

If you're not married then would you be able to remain in NZ in the event of you splitting up?

He is barely civil to dm when he sees her now as he holds her responsible

That is appalling, frankly.

How good is it for children to grow up with their relatives on the other side of the world?

My dd grew up with her extended family thousands of miles away and really envied her friends whose aunts and grannies came to special events.

Controversial opinion here but I think anyone who emigrates permanently is selfish and leaves many people deeply unhappy. We have family in oz and cousins that are very attached to each other (have managed to meet anually for 12 years as we lived in Asia for 4 years). I'd love them to grow up near each other, go to each others' birthdays, etc etc. Our parents are also getting older and it all falls on us. Parents too ill to travel and we don't want to spend 24 hours on an aeroplane.

Too many people only think of themselves.