to not want to emigrate?

[pastaparadise]

DP is desperate to emigrate. He doesn't like the area we live in (too wet, too busy/ bad traffic), and wants to live abroad. He's recently decided he wants us to emigrate to New Zealand. We went on holiday years ago and both loved it, & he could get a working visa.

However, I am reluctant to leave. Dm is widowed, ill and old, and i currently live very close and see her a couple of times a week/ help out (closest sib is 3 hours drive away). I would feel terrible leaving her, guilty and very sad about this. DP feels that she should move closer to my sibling and go into a home - problem sorted.

We have 2 young dc. Dp feels i am stopping them having a much better life overseas, but i worry we will be completely cut off from friends and family, and with young children it will be impractical/ too expensive to travel back to the UK much (we dont see his family much, but i get on well with my sibling and our dc with their cousins). Worth mentioning that whilst quality of life looks great in nz, we actually live in a lovely house in a lovely safe place (although the commute is shitty neither of us have to do it often).

I also worry that should we go, dp wont want to come back and that i will get stuck their regardless. However, dp is very resentful that i won't go and thinks that I'm being selfish putting me and my mum above the needs of our own family. As history, prior to dm being ill, df was ill for a long time before dying, so i didnt want to move pre dc (although dp never had a proper job offer to go anywhere). Dp says he feels trapped and feels if we wait for dm to die before we go it will be too late for lots of reasons.

I dont want dp to be unhappy and increasingly resentful, but also dont want to emigrate so far away. AIBU to say no?

Does he realise NZ has weather too? It’s rains, just like the UK. I was there in winter.

@pastaparadise

I echo what everyone else has said.

NZ is a stunning country to look at, and to visit (went 10 years back) but no WAY would I move there. I would only leave the UK if I had no-one here who meant anything to me. I have too many people I love and care about to go off to the other side of the world.

And as has been said, going on hols somewhere is not the same as LIVING there, working there, being a citizen there, getting ill there, trying to make friends there, trying to fit in there etc etc...

And people are very friendly with you as a tourist, because you're their bread and butter. They will not be as friendly when you are an immigrant there. I mean, a few probably will be, but many won't. (I mean ANY country, not just NZ.)

I know a number of people who moved to NZ (and Oz) and the majority of them are not happy there. Some moved back. It just wasn't what they thought it was going to be, and they were just too far away from everyone.

I also know several people right now whose children have moved (to Oz, and the far east, and South America,) and they are devastated. I was upset when my DD went to the University of Edinburgh 350 miles north LOL, and I barely saw her for 3 years! She came back though - well for a year, then moved away again, but not as far!

Now she lives 60-70 miles away, in London! Gives me an excuse to visit London tho (which l love,) and we see her 2 or 3 times a month. If she moved 12,000 miles away, I'm not gonna lie, I would be crushed.

Also OP, I agree with the others on here, that there seems to be more issues in your relationship.

No. Just No.
Its hard enough to move to a new country without children, never mind with them. If you do this, and you clearly don't want to, you will resent him. It won't work. It really won't.
We moved to Oz for a bit. I told DH (it was his dream) that for me, it was just a trial. I wasn't committing to it.
The big differences being a) we were married b) we were childless with few possessions and c) he had a job lined up also d) I didn't really have that much contact with my folks anyway.
I loved it there. Not going to pretend otherwise. But. All of a sudden I missed my folks. There was no way long haul holidays were going to happen. We couldn't afford it. We didn't have enough holiday anyway (20 days) We had decent jobs, and a decent lifestyle, but it was still quite expensive back in 2005.
Then I got pregnant. Had to make my decision. Decided I was going home with or without DH. It took him a long time to get over that. He still resents me all these years later. But I had to do what was right for me and before I had the baby.
I won't ever regret that. I'm so happy I came home. My dad was very ill and I hadn't really realised how bad. He got to meet both his grandchildren before he went.
Your gut is telling you no. Listen to it and don't be bullied.

Thanks for more thoughts. We've just had another conversation that slid into an argument.

He is clearly very resentful at the current situation. It's almost as if he feels it's my turn to be miserable. Not sure if its frustration speaking but he said if it wasnt for dc he'd go without me if i wouldn't go, which makes me really upset and feel even more vulnerable about going and getting stuck.

I appreciate a pp comments that decisions seem to have ended up in my favour overall, although all have been made jointly. But it's hard to compromise on. I have said I'd think about relocating within the UK but he thinks that's not practical. Also it still leaves me with problems re dm, and leaving all friends and my job behind. He's not close to family or friends so cant understand why that's an issue.

I dont want to split, i would hate to have dc shuttling between us and would be much worse off financially. Equally i dont want to make changes that will likely make me miserable to make him happier. Sadly he won't consider counselling etc.

mbosnz

Sugarbum did your dh got over it or does it still cause issues?

mbosnz thanks for all the pointers - good to have a reality check to ask him about

swingofthings i agree, and feel guilty he's now clearly miserable with our lot. You're right i dont want to swap places. I do feel annoyed though that he's encouraged me to downgrade my position and pay so he's less affected by childcare/ drop offs etc, but now wants me to be main breadwinner.

i really envy couples with joint goals as ours seem so poles apart at the moment

Hell, even when you have joint goals, if emigration is part of them, it can put so much pressure on a relationship.

Think about shifting house, in the same town. Pretty stressful, yeah?

Okay, now shifting house to another county. Bit more stressful?

Okay, what about to the other side of the country?

Hmm, what about to Europe?

America?

Okay, how about another hemisphere altogether, on the other side of the sodding world?!

This really isn't something to do lightly, or because you're not happy because you're feeling hard done by in your life and relationship. It really, really, isn't.

Also, it is very normal, when you have young children, and you're realising that your footloose and fancy free days are behind you, and now, yep, life is at the moment very much about the daily grind, paying the bills, ferrying the kids to their stuff, never seeming having time for your stuff, to be grumpy, resentful, and feel like kicking over the traces. I think for some people, they act out with affairs, others with a second childhood gaming or going out with the mates or spending half their life at the gym, and some start thinking that the grass must be greener over the other side.

But that is way, way, WAY over the other side!

I dont want to split, i would hate to have dc shuttling between us and would be much worse off financially. Equally i dont want to make changes that will likely make me miserable to make him happier.

Do you still love him?

I wouldn't be able to live with myself if my easier, happier life was making DP more miserable. Ideally I'd want us both happy, but if that wasn't possible, I'd be sharing the misery. One person having it all is going to make them increasingly jaded and resentful.

What are you willing to compromise on? Not the emigration, he must see that if your relationship is already this fragile, that would be a nightmare. But life things. Could you increase your hours a bit and he reduce his?

That he'd go without you if it wasn't for the kids is a telling statement of how unhappy he is.

My advice is get couples therapy first and get your relationship on much stronger ground.

Only think about emigrating if you are both on the same page and super supportive of each other. Otherwise there is a good chance it will blow your relationship to smithereens.

And yes it rains A LOT in NZ.

Well, we seem to vacillate between drought and floods. At the moment, it's floods. The drought just broke.

It ALWAYS rains on the West Coast of the South Island, lol.

The song 'four seasons in one day', occurred to Tim and Neil Finn for a reason. . .

Following as in a similar situation

The quality of education is very very poor in NZ. Pay is also quite low there. I wouldn’t move there given the choice even though it is quite nice.

Um, I wouldn't go as far as to say the quality of education is very, very poor in NZ BigFatGiant. My girls have managed to get into the top streams of their classes within four months of being here, which seems pretty good to me, given the vast disparity of the curriculum. And we came from middle of the road state schools over there. Of course, we're at a Comp, not an independent or Grammar.

It is definitely more relaxed, and nowhere as intense - which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing. The change in homework and results pressure has been something of an eyeopener for my two! NCEA is the main qualification over in NZ, and it's not as internationally recognised as the UK qualifications.

Pay is definitely quite low comparative to the high cost of living.

I’m an expat in the U.K., OP, as is my husband and moving internationally is HARD. Like makes-you-want-to-cry HARD. It’s visas, shipping quotes, airfares, picking the right school from the other side of the world, second guessing everything, and and and. And DH and I were on the same page!

He’s ultimatum that you go full time and he part time sucks. He sounds overwhelmed but is he aware that part time doesn’t mean watching tv and bike rides, it’s the childcare, a bigger part of the house management? Or is he just saying that to get his way?

As others have said, counselling sounds like a really choice option right now. Emigrating always sounds lovely and exciting, but it only works if everyone is on board.

My sister moved to Australia 10 years ago with her dh and young child mainly because that is what he wanted it was his dream etc. 4 years later he left her for another woman and she is stuck because she doesn't want to uproot her son who only knows Australia and doesn't want to separate him from his dad. All the stresses of single parenthood are intensified by the fact she has no family and few friends to help her. Without his job she doesn't earn much. She has missed the funerals of both grandparents and has nieces and nephews she will never meet.
She went because he wanted her to and convinced her it would make them happier. Now she is miserable. If you don't want to go then don't go just cause he does it's a recipe for disaster.

I'd look at where you could move in this country that is less wet/less busy and has access to what facilities you need. This country has places with lovely scenery and activities to do without moving to the other side of the world when one of you isn't sure you want to go.

OP I was your DP in this situation and it didn't end well tbh. He sounds resentful and angry. I was that with my XH. If he feels he's making the sacrifices then something has to change somewhere.

Maybe you do need to consider both going full time or finding a way so that you each only work four days a week or something (him M-Th, you Tues-Fri for example so not as much childcare needed?). I resented my XH for "trapping us", even though we met in his hometown and I kind of figured we'd be stuck there because of his parents - unfortunately he made out in the beginning that he was open to moving abroad and when he suddenly wouldn't consider it, I began to resent him and our way of life and it bred bigger problems.

You need to sit down and talk about the other concerns before emigrating. Ask him (besides moving) what changes he would like to see in your lives.

Is your home owned? In his name or both? Do you share finances? If you two split and none of that is correct, you're setting yourself up for a shock by not being married.

lola006 - sing it sister!!!

(Makes your hair fall out hard, lol!)

I do feel annoyed though that he's encouraged me to downgrade my position and pay so he's less affected by childcare/ drop offs etc, but now wants me to be main breadwinner
But it's not unreasonable to be supportive of an arrangement but then feels differently. In his case, it means reducing his hours, for you it is not wanting to emigrate any longer.

You feel guilty, you don't want him to be miserable, but what are you doing to help him be happier? It looks like any decision that would make things a bit better for him would mean things not as good for you so you don't want to contemplate it and that's not fair on him. You are a team and need to find a way so both of oyu are closer on the happiness scale rstherc5hsn you being very happy when he's miserable.

Emigrating might have to be out of of reach as your reasoning for not going is justified but surely you owe him and your marriage to consider what other options would make him feel less miserable.

The alternative is seperating and doing you own things. Would that make you both happier?

Just no.

You have to BOTH be utterly committed to emigration. It's so, so hard. You both have to totally want to do it, and even then, it's a real slog. You also have to, absolutely HAVE to be totally on each other's team - and that includes understanding that if it really isn't working out for one person then you'll come back.

Tbh your DP doesn't really sound on anyone's team but his own.
He would, 100%, refuse to let you leave with the children if you hated it. 100%.
And you probably would hate it... not because NZ isn't potentially a great place to live, but because your life is here and you don't want to leave everyone and everything.
So you would end up splitting up anyway most likely, under those circumstances, but be stuck in NZ instead of here.
You really might as well split here if that's the way thigns are going.

I get that he's resentful about the way things have worked out - but emigration is at another level entirely. It just isn't something you can do for someone else. It's not possible - your relationship and family would not survive it.

Do not go. Tell him it's just not ever going to be what you want from life... and let him make the decision on whether he wants to stay or go.

Personally, even putting aside his frustration, every post you write makes him sound not great. Sulking, blaming, quite cold. Don't put yourself and your chidlren second to make this guy happy... I have a feeling it would blow up in your face.

pastaparadise how part time are you and how old are the children?

My DH once suggested that he'd give up work once all the children were at school - after I'd done all the night wakings for 11 solid years between all the kids, changed 99% of the nappies, and done 9 consecutive years of full time childcare because none of the children went to any kind of childcare until they were 3 - oh and given up a thriving business to emigrate (he had a job offer). Ah, how we laughed...

I have, however suggested that we do 4 days each in a couple of years time when my earnings are back up to a reasonable amount due to completion of a qualification late next year. I pointed out he'd need to take over half the food shopping, cooking and laundry. He's not committed to anything...

If you want your relationship to succeed you do need to sit down together and make a list of what makes you happy currently, what makes you unhappy, and wishes for the future. Then see where you can each compromise to reach the best balance for both of you.

He almost certainly does not want the drop in standard of living that you becoming the sole earner would mean, nor to take on all the domestic responsibility. He's almost certainly just trying to frighten/ blackmail/ punish you. It's also completely unfair and unreasonable given you're part time not staying at home and given its likely you've already done the hardest part in terms of unrelenting childcare.

Do not emigrate on the back of a rocky relationship and emotional blackmail, it goes without saying that will be an absolute unmitigated disaster.

You both need to look at your current situation reasonably, identify realistic changes that could be made so that you can both be content.

Or split.

The whole issue of emigrating aside (which you'd be crazy to do) it is his dismissiveness of your mother and your relationship with her that 'speaks' to me.

He's not worth such a life changing move because, let's face it, at this stage you'd only be doing it to make him happy.

Do not emigrate on the back of a rocky relationship and emotional blackmail, it goes without saying that will be an absolute unmitigated disaster.

What is it that your dp thinks NZ will offer him? What is it he is looking for?

Yanbu

It sounds like he wants to run away (from what I don’t know) but if he’s not happy now what makes you think that he’ll be happy once you all move there. It sounds like a massive gamble- one that you should be wary of taking.

Oh Lord, OP, please don’t do this. I emigrated willingly, and only to Europe, and it is still hard after nine years. I miss my family and friends so much. I won’t move back for the time being as my children are happy here and our lives are well established, but doing it without enthusiasm and without a fully supportive partner just sounds like a very bad mistake. I can’t fathom being 24 hours away...