to not want to emigrate?

[pastaparadise]

DP is desperate to emigrate. He doesn't like the area we live in (too wet, too busy/ bad traffic), and wants to live abroad. He's recently decided he wants us to emigrate to New Zealand. We went on holiday years ago and both loved it, & he could get a working visa.

However, I am reluctant to leave. Dm is widowed, ill and old, and i currently live very close and see her a couple of times a week/ help out (closest sib is 3 hours drive away). I would feel terrible leaving her, guilty and very sad about this. DP feels that she should move closer to my sibling and go into a home - problem sorted.

We have 2 young dc. Dp feels i am stopping them having a much better life overseas, but i worry we will be completely cut off from friends and family, and with young children it will be impractical/ too expensive to travel back to the UK much (we dont see his family much, but i get on well with my sibling and our dc with their cousins). Worth mentioning that whilst quality of life looks great in nz, we actually live in a lovely house in a lovely safe place (although the commute is shitty neither of us have to do it often).

I also worry that should we go, dp wont want to come back and that i will get stuck their regardless. However, dp is very resentful that i won't go and thinks that I'm being selfish putting me and my mum above the needs of our own family. As history, prior to dm being ill, df was ill for a long time before dying, so i didnt want to move pre dc (although dp never had a proper job offer to go anywhere). Dp says he feels trapped and feels if we wait for dm to die before we go it will be too late for lots of reasons.

I dont want dp to be unhappy and increasingly resentful, but also dont want to emigrate so far away. AIBU to say no?

Something like this will never work unless you're both in it fully. It's such a huge process and will affect every part of your lives, so you need to be entirely invested for it to be a success.

Have you and DH actually been over there to scout around and see where you'd potentially be moving to and get to know the area? Is that a possibility?

Even if he gets a visa can you as you are not married?

Don't be pressurised into it. It's a hell of a long way to go go feel trapped if you want to come back and he doesn't.

It's obvious you don't want to go, and probably still wouldn't if you mother was well looked after. That is your right not to want to.

Most people who want to immigrate do so because they are not happy with their current situation and think that going somewhere will take away the factors that make rhem currently unhappy. What is it that makes him unhappy and can you work together to come up with compromises so that he can find some happiness in this country?

No way on earth. Unless you'd agreed that emigration was on the cards at the start of your relationship. And especially not so far away - it's over 24 hours travel to get there and the better part of a £1000 each. Also, has he actually done much thinking about this? I mean, if he doesn't like where you live because it's too wet, then NZ isn't somewhere that would spring to mind to me as a dryer option!

Good point Swing. Also what a pp said, I wondered about the marriage side of things? I know nothing about the rules and regs. If there aren't any, would the OP be worse or better off married abroad. More security in one way, tied in another.

If you’re not married, would you be able to get a visa as someone mentions (assuming he had the job?)

And also, if you split up, your right to remain might also go, but the children would have to stay there. I’m just speculating but it’s what I would be investigating.

Actually, I probably wouldn’t be investigating that as there’s no way I’d go. You don’t want to. You want to stay and support family and how is that selfish? He’s the one wanting to uproot everyone and remove the support from a woman with dementia. Many people enjoy life in the UK, it’s a good place to live even if he disagrees right now.

Has he wanted to move for as long as you've known him? Have you implied you're open to it?

How unreasonable you're being depends on those answers IMO. Similarly to someone who told their partner for years that they wanted to get married and have four children, but then eventually after ten or fifteen years of stringing their partner along reveals that nope, they just want to live together and don't want marriage and kids and after all...

However, whether you're being unreasonable or not you still shouldn't emigrate. It never works for people who do it reluctantly. Even positively wanting to and not going as far, there are rollercoaster like ups and downs for the first five years. It's very hard emotional, psychological and practical work to emigrate successfully especially with children in tow. You have to be fully committed to making it work.

Like having children, doing for a quiet life or to keep your partner happy is a terrible idea.

Be straight with him today though, and tell him outright that you are never going to emigrate. Don't string him along with excuses.

You're already planning to come back if you do go!

How much of this is about your mother and how much is you just don’t want to go? Or to put it another way of your mother were run over by the proverbial bus tomorrow would you be happy to move or would you still not be keen?

Are you even able to go if you’re not married? Presumably you would need a spouse visa

If you’re not sure don’t do it x

Hi OP

I actually know a fee people who moved to NZ and then moved back.

Coming back for holidays is so expensive they never did

It is very isolated and very rural - very different from the UK

Lots of young people emigrate, there are more job opportunities elsewhere. What would happen if your children wanted to move back to the UK to work?

Has he wanted to move for as long as you've known him? Have you implied you're open to it?

That's the pivotal point here, I think. If he's always wanted to go; have toy suggested you would?

That doesn't mean you should if you've changed your mind, but it does change things a bit. I'd sympathise with him then, like I do when women post that their partner always seemed happy to marry or have kids and then changed their mind. It's horrid to be in that position. It will mean that he will have to weigh up whether to go, or stay with you.

Do you actually want to emigrate at any point? Would you want to go after your DM has passed on? Or would you then still prefer to stay? You'll have the added complications of schools and things too.

I've emigrated, it was fantastic and I was reluctant to come back, but it is hard. I wouldn't do it if I didn't want to, I can't see how it would work. I think you both need a serious chat about life goals and whether you can achieve everyone's objectives and keep everyone happy together now.

hmmm lots to consider - thanks all.

Theoretically i could work there as my job is on the skills shortage list, although I'm not sure if wages are comparable, and I feel it would be hard to work and have time to come home when dm becomes more ill (which she will).

Tbh, if dm wasnt a consideration I would like the idea a lot more, and I do crave some adventure, but i would still have reservations about leaving my family/ friends and being stuck there if dp didnt want to come back/ we split up. He seems so lacking in compassion for dm, and the whole issue is causing such a rift, that our relationship feels less solid now.

He has wanted to emigrate for a long time - not since the start of our relationship but since a few years in. Originally to the Far East/ Europe, although job opportunities are limited for him due to language (he's applied for quite a lot of jobs but not got them). I was more open to moving in rhe past so he was under the impression it was possible, but not promised. Things just seem to have got harder as soon after df died, dm got ill and we had dc. He understandably feels that if we wait til dm dies it will be too late.

I think he is resentful as he feels everything is 'my way' (ie having kids, me working part time, living here) whilst he works full time to fund this. However he wanted me to work pt so dc arnt in childcare all week, and has even encouraged me to quit altogether in the past. He's now saying if we dont move then he can go part time, i can work full time, and we'd have to downsize to make up the £difference. Selfishly that would be shitty for me as i love having time off with the kids and love our house, and i would have a shitty commute to find a full time job.

Good idea from a pp about exploring more what makes him unhappy here - i suspect he'll say climate/ too crowded/ boring/ doesnt want kids growing up in post Brexit uk.

Lots of young people emigrate, there are more job opportunities elsewhere. What would happen if your children wanted to move back to the UK to work?

This happened to some of our family friends. Two of their three children are now in the UK working for better opportunities and to escape the boring sheep countryside idyll that their parents moved for!

You are in such a vulnerable position not being married in this situation.

Regardless of the emigration thing. Obviously don't agree to that! You don't want to go.

I think he is resentful as he feels everything is 'my way' (ie having kids, me working part time, living here) whilst he works full time to fund this. However he wanted me to work pt so dc arnt in childcare all week, and has even encouraged me to quit altogether in the past. He's now saying if we dont move then he can go part time, i can work full time, and we'd have to downsize to make up the £difference. Selfishly that would be shitty for me as i love having time off with the kids and love our house, and i would have a shitty commute to find a full time job.

There are deeper issues than NZ aren't there? Have you thought about some couples therapy to help explore these feelings with each other?

As you'll be able to tell from my name, I'm from NZ.

I've just done the opposite, come from NZ to the UK. It's hard. Damned hard. I don't know how old your kids are, but mine were 12 and 14, and it's very hard on them, leaving their extended family (even if not particularly close, which we weren't to most of ours, but it means they get even more distant if you know what I mean), their friends, their school, the culture and way of life (which are different), and the school system which they know and you know.

We did it because husband's work put a lot of pressure on him to relocate, and made an offer we couldn't refuse. We got a very good relocation package to cushion the cost to us. Even then it cost a lot.

The homesickness, even if you're willing, and the guilt, can be fairly crushing at times. It's hard when things happen, and you're not there. I feel a bit like I'm neither fish nor fowl - neither Kiwi nor Brit!

For me, emigration is a bit like having a baby, it takes two yeses to make it happen, and only one for it to be a no goer. It is VERY expensive, no matter which way you go.

A few points to consider about New Zealand:

It is not a tropical climate. We do get a lot of rain, wind, and cold. The further south you go, the colder and wetter it gets.

It is not a high wage economy. There is a very high cost of living. Particularly in Auckland. Power costs are high, insurance is high, cost of white ware, cars etc, is high, as is food.

Housing is expensive. It is different to the UK (Please note I say different, not necessarily better or worse). It is not as well insulated, particularly in older properties, older properties are less likely to have double glazing, and central heating is rare. On the plus side, they tend to be bigger, and more modern, open design, particularly if you buy newer. But, as I said - expensive!

Education system is quite different. Personally my kids feel the depth and breadth of education they are receiving at a comp' in the UK is superior to what they were getting in NZ. (Then again, they're academic, and love a challenge).

You fellas over here see a lot more open to newcomers than NZers are. Once again, I think the further South you go, the more likely we are to be courteous, friendly, but not necessarily fold you in. If you're into sports, clubs, and your kids are as well, I think it's a lot easier.

Your concerns about your family ties and obligations are valid ones, and your partner should respect that. The fact that he is not as close to his family is no excuse. I have a lot of guilt because my elderly, widowed mother (in good health thankfully) is now the responsibility of my sister and niece - although they know I do what I can in terms of maintaining contacts, regularly talking, etc, and will always come home if she goes pear shaped.

I really think it is piss poor your partner's attempts to emotionally blackmail you, with saying that you will have to go fulltime, so he can go part-time. When it comes to that sort of thing, surely it's about what's best for the kids at this point. Does he want to go part-time for him, or because he wants to spend time with the kids and enhance the family quality of life and day to day experience? I agree that you either need to have some good solid talks about the underlying issues, or some couples therapy to sort out the underlying issues.

Sorry for the novel.

Sorry, just a couple of other things.

It is not an easy decision, it's an even harder thing to do. To pack up, sell up, say goodbye, leave everything you take as being the natural order of things and move to a place where much is similar, but enough is to be different to be jarring! A couple of ex-pats who made the move at the same time as me, have had a very hard time figuring out 'their brands' if you know what I mean - and it frustrated the hell out of them!

Going for a holiday and enjoying it is not really the same as knowing what it's like to live there, the difference in culture, schools, how things are done (like being charged to go to the doctor, for example).

If you're both willing (even if one is more enthusiastic and on-board than the other), it's a lot easier to ride out the trauma and stress, and sheer bloody hard work of selling up, packing up and getting there, and finding a place, work, school, doctor, - the list is never-ending!

But when it goes pear shaped, and it always does, and with alarming regularity at the beginning, it's pretty damned hard sometimes to keep a sense of humour, of camaraderie, and that it's a mutual decision, and you're going to meet it head on and ride it out together. And with kids, you've got to be able to be positive when they're down and homesick, and had a hard day at school because the other kids aren't that friendly, or made fun of their accent, or said mean things about where they came from.

Okay, NOW I'll shut up.

Sorry, not trying to paint a horrible picture, but maybe a more realistic one than perhaps your partner has in his head.

When you have a family, it has to be about what is best for them, and not about what one person wants. The time for that is past.

I think he is resentful as he feels everything is 'my way' (ie having kids, me working part time, living here) whilst he works full time to fund this. However he wanted me to work pt so dc arnt in childcare all week, and has even encouraged me to quit altogether in the past. He's now saying if we dont move then he can go part time, i can work full time, and we'd have to downsize to make up the £difference. Selfishly that would be shitty for me as i love having time off with the kids and love our house, and i would have a shitty commute to find a full time job.

Ah. It's probably time to get some professional help on this. He sounds very resentful and unhappy. Is it true that he's made all the compromises? That the decisions have generally gone in your direction?

It might be time to redress that balance somehow. Not by emigrating if you don't want to, and maybe not by going back to work, but by doing something that makes him less miserable - or just deciding that he's not actually miserable and he's trying to manipulate you into getting his own way. Either way; it could have big repercussions for your relationship.

Would he step up and look after the kids while you worked if that happened? Would you be able to continue being part time if you split up, or are you reliant on his income too? Do you own your house?

I expect whether it's obvious to you or not, it's the lack of compassion for your mother, that has maybe got you looking at him in a different light. Some things can't be got past. If he was so keen on emigrating long ago, he should have thought about it before having children, so don't think the 'blame' lays fairly and squarely at your door.

No way would I go. And you're not married, so you'd have little security. And then if you decide to come back you'll have no money because the Kiwi dollar rates poorly against sterling. I would flatly refuse and I would end the relationship too. He sounds horrible.

I have lived abroad (asia) before kids. Did both islands in NZ . Going on holiday is different to living there, I found it at least 10 years behind the UK, Auckland small, the tourists areas although lovely, scenery spectacular, But living there's another matter. My BIL moved there (married a kiwi) great for sports but everything is miles travel, his house was effected by the eruption. It is a huge change but for your children sake its a sacrifice i would do, Britain will still be here.

Your relationship has far bigger problems than just the issue of moving. Your partner resents everything about you. He sounds like a prick.

I think he is resentful as he feels everything is 'my way' (ie having kids, me working part time, living here) he works full time to fund this. However he wanted me to work pt so dc arnt in childcare all week, and has even encouraged me to quit altogether in the past. He's now saying if we dont move then he can go part time, i can work full time, and we'd have to downsize to make up the £difference.

He sounds so angry OP - and that last update sounds as though he wants to punish you.

He wants to dismiss your elderly, widowed mother who has dementia, into a home far from where her home currently is, without considering if that would be good for her mentally or physically, demand your sister who lives a long distance away takes responsibility for your mother irrespective of whether or not that's possible, blames you for decisions which he suggested, ie: you working part time instead of full time external childcare, to follow a dream he had before you both had children together (so his decision as well as yours) to move across the world to a place he'd only holidayed in before several years ago - ie never lived there and therefore have first hand knowledge regarding living costs, medical costs, standard of living etc.

Does that sound like a move you should sensibly make, given how things stand currently?

It's also been mentioned that if you did move with him and wanted to return and he didn't you'd be stuck as you might be unable to leave without your children. What would happen then?

Would he be prepared to go alone for 6-12 months and actually live there himself to get the feel for what it's really like living and working there? That would also give you both a breather from each other and you'd need to up your working hours and see what childcare help you could get including some free childcare depending on the ages of your DCs? I think you get some free childcare once a child reaches 3yo but someone more knowledgeable can confirm.

You sound in a tight spot OP but I think moving to NZ is not going to work for you?

He's now saying if we dont move then he can go part time, i can work full time, and we'd have to downsize to make up the £difference. Selfishly that would be shitty for me as i love having time off with the kids and love our house, and i would have a shitty commute to find a full time job
He sounds like a typical man stressed and exhausted with work pressure. I've been there and I totally get where he is coming from. You say it yourself, you wouldn't want to trade because your life is nice as it is. Ife has to face Dreading going to work every day feeling very unhappy whilst seeing you happy, relaxed and enjoying life, it is no surprise he is growing more resentful each day. It's not that he doesn't care about your mum, more that he wonders why his life has to be so difficult so that your mum has it good.

I agree that you really need to discuss a compromise. Why is he so unhappy to work FT. What makes it all too much for him that he dreams of somewhere where it will be easier (which could be the reality of just a fantasy). Your husband needs help to find some level of peace and happiness again.