children that are firghtened of dogs and how i find some parents are encouraging their fear

[haychee]

I have 2 medium to large dogs and i get so cross when i come accross children that just lose the plot if the dogs go near them. I can understand that they are frightened and i call the dogs away from the child instantly. But what makes me cross is the parents responses, "that dog should be on a lead" or i just get looks that could kill you dead. My arguement is, that if the child is that frightened then why would you take him or her to a place where dogs are everywhere in a dog walking area. Why do parents encourage their childrens fear by making these comments? what good does it do for the child? I actually saw one mother once who picked her child up every time the dog was anywhere close (like 4-5meters away). The child got increasingly anxious and the mother ended up having a go at me. I know and fully appreciate that some dogs are dangerous but mine arent and i think that when parents react like this infront of their children the message they are displaying is that its ok to be this frightened of dogs.

My daughter was once frightened of thunder so i purposely sat up with her watching a storm and saying things like "wow, that one was very loud" and " cor, look at that lightening isnt it beautiful". Because of this time i spent with her and the way we watched it together has dulled her fear - infact she gets quite excited if there is a storm brewing now.
Any one else feel the same or can understand where im coming from? or maybe your one of these types of parents that react like this? I would like to discuss the issue if anyone has any comments?

Been there, LucyEllens. And how is it that when you go out with three poo bags, your dog always does 4 poos? Have perfected the knack of reusing the top of the bag. Pick up first poo, tie knot in bag just above it. Keeps smell in, and gives you room for more poo on top. Tie second knot et voila! You have yourself dog poo napisan.

Spidermama-have you ever been tempted to plant one of those fake turds on the pavement and lie in wait to see who it is?

Haychee, I can't even believe this discussion has gone on this long. How many stories have we heard of over the years when children have been bitten and scarred for life and the owners of the dogs have said, "He is such a gently thing, he has NEVER attacked anyone before ..."

How do you know that your dogs will never ever ever attack anyone ever? You can't possibly know that. You dog should be on a lead in public places. End of Story IMO.

My best friend bought a Staffie puppy 2 years ago. She is a beautiful dog and is much loved by her family. This dog has single handedly cured my son of his chronic fear of dogs with her lovely nature and patience. But my friend isn't stupid. She understands that people can be frightened and was very very understanding when she first got the puppy (she was put outside when we were there or left inside if the children were playing in the garden). She never lets her off the lead on walks unless they are somewhere completely off the beat and track. Not because she thinks Violet will attack anyone but for respect for other people.
My friend puts people first. And although she loves her dog very much she comes second.

Good post ghosty. I like dogs, have never feared them. However, ds who started off not fearing them is now terrified because a number of dogs have run up to him (probably to play)trying to jump up and have scared him witless. He is 3. Recently we went to a park and there was a beautiful boxer dog who ran amok, was totally out of control and kept thundering through the three of us trying to get to ds. When we stood up (had been sitting down) to shield ds, the owner shouted out "oh don't worry, he's great with kids". I yelled "just get your dog under control" and the man ran around after the dog trying to catch it without success. Parks are for people, if dogs are to visit them too then they need to be well behaved and know not to approach children.

why the debate, it is simple. my kids are scared of dogs, consequently whilst i try to reassure them i do not expect a dog to jump all over them and make them anxious when i have told them there is no need to be.
If some dog owners were more responsible the my kids wouldn't encounter dogs in such a way and their fear would become irrational very quickly. This situation is frequently made worse by the 'it won't hurt you' dog owner, which does nothing to console my child who has just had an animal the same size as she jump all over her.

agree quad

Haychee

It really does sound like your dogs are beautiful and well behaved. However, for a mother who has just seen a news article about two pits that nearly killed a child and do not know your dogs from anywhere...seeing your dog off the leash may be concerning. There is a park not to far from here, that has a special designated area, that is fenced for dogs to run, play, and fetch a ball. In this area dogs are permitted to be off thier leashes so they can play and I have never seen a child in this area. Maybe you can petition to try and get something like this in your area.

Yes anniemac, my friend told me that too ... she said that her dog gets really excited around other dogs which is another reason why she keeps her on a lead at all times.

"We shouldn't feel we deserve so much more than all other animals. Let's not forget we're the ones who are continuing to destroy our own environment. "

in the nicest possible way, sm, do you think keeping an animal-any animal- as a pet-training it to do as human society needs it to, feeding it out of a can-is actually showing it respect?

oh and fwiw i don't want to walk in dog crap, i want itt bagged.

on the ground its a health hazard. bagged, it isn't, its just unsightly. Easy choice IMO

or do what pb suggested and train the dogs to crap after a meal.

Thankyou leati the most sensible answer i had all day! I agree, a seperated area would please everyone. My local area does in a way provide this where there are parks/playingfields where dogs are allowed off the lead and there are some that dont allow dogs off leads at all. I NEVER take mine to somewhere where they are not allowed. And for that matter i ALWAYS clean up after them. News stories that hit the headlines for dog attacks only highlight the bad dogs, there are a hell of alot of good dogs around with very responsible owners. I put myself into this category. I do not go out of my way to ensure every child in sight is petrified, infact i make sure they (the dogs) keep their distance. I can quite understand that some people kids or adults may be afraid, but why then do some families go to parks that are specifically for dogs or dog friendly when there is one down the road that is not. I can now also fully appreciate that some of you do not have the luxury of this option and where it is available some dog owners do not adhere to the rules, this i find appauling!
With regards to taking them to the beach well yes i do do that, but never a family beach, i always visit those that again are very dog friendly (holkham beach in norfolk is my favourite).

For those of you that still think i am the one who is unreasonable, i want to make myself clearer on the subject. I do not allow my dogs to chase every child in sight but i do believe that if you are going to take a child into a park or any other area where dogs are permitted to run free then the child should be taught how to react and to approach a dog. I am not saying that all dogs are friendly or that the owners word for it can be trusted. But is does aggrevate me when i see a child with its mother and they are both flapping up and down and creating a commotion at even the sight of a dog off the lead. All this does is make the dog even more aware of their presence and to a dog, especially a young one, it looks as though these people want to play. If i could explain this to my dog then i would but unfortunately they cannot talk, whereas a child can. All i can do is ensure my dogs always come back when called and that they do not approach everybody in a running bounding type manner. Also, i always keep a very close eye on where my dogs are when they are off the lead.
Im sorry if my posts are annoying to some of you but i did start the thread because i felt strongly on this matter.
It appears that all my hard work and training and care i take over my dogs is and has been ruined by those owners who do not take as much care as i do. The simple message that i wanted to portray was that kids need to be taught how to act around dogs, not encouraged to scream and run. Because of this opinion i have been slaughtered - told i was full of crap,told to have my dogs put down and various other totally ridiculous statements. My dogs ARE well trained and always under control, they never jump up etc.

and i reiterate my point

dog owning, like playing loud music or smoking, is a privilege

It has the potential to impact negatively on those around you

What is really getting me is the tone of some of the posts of dog owners.

The idea that you shouldn't bag up crap- for environemtal reasons, wtf? Like owning any pet isn't environmentally destructive, let alone one which eats cans of factory farmed animals every day- and the rather patronising idea that people should just like it or lump it when it comes to dogs-

I mean, whatever really, these posters are doing responsible dog owners absolutely NO favours.

excuse me some of us dog owners are responsible and hate these kinds of attitudes aswell

To be really honest with you. I live in the US in a mostly migrant community. Dogs run everywhere, I am one of the few pet owners in my area who don't let thier dogs run around. 99.9% of those dogs are more likely to lick you then bite you. I am afraid of the one percent. That is why, I have taught my kids not to approach stray dogs.
One other thing about living in a neighborhood where everyone lets thier dogs run free, don't ride a bicycle. They chase you, and nip at your ankles.

or go running

thats what pisses me off more than not being able to take my kids to the park in some ways

i can't go running without some great b'stard of a "puppy" jumping up at me. Now I've had nips and so forth, but regardless, I don't WANT dog slobber all over me, its gross.

Haychee

"If i could explain this to my dog then i would but unfortunately they cannot talk, whereas a child can. "

Actually no. As I put in a previous post my son cannot. I may well have been one of the unreasonable people that you are complaining about. Aged 10 he is autistic and was frightened badly once and now is very very scared. I HAVE to respond to protect and comfort him because again, being autistic, what is a passing moment of fear to most kids could set off a meltdown that results in us all having to go home and several hours of calming him. He is a big boy but if a dog comes close enough i wold actually have to pick him up.
Again, as i said I have a dog and I love walking him. I am not anti-dog or paranoid or hysterical.

The arguements about how people and dogs should co-habit is not the point of your OP - so congratulating someone with good ideas about that is not the point.
The point of your OP was that parents reacting to their childs fear were causing the problem.
I am telling you that in my experience that is not the case. You persist in blaming the parents but I really really wish you would see that actually sometimes there are kids that cannot be de-sensitized and that dog owners should take the fear their dogs can create seriously. I think that is the mark of a responsible owner.
Now I have posted this before but you ignored the post so I wonder if you will, as a former nurse, reflect that perhaps there are some scenarios that you have been a bit judgemental about, that perhaps sometimes a child is particularly vulnerable and the parent NEEDS to be protective.
Hmmmm - is that possible?

I can't believe I'm coming back to this...

The don't leave crap in the woods in non biodegradable bags - just leave the poo on the floor comments...aaaargh!

I agree this new trend for leaving little bagged up poos (I've seen them tied to fences and trees) all over the place is disgusting but the answer is not to just leave the poo on the ground. The answer is to bag it up and take it home. I've taken my kids on two walks recently - one in the local forest, one along the canal - and I have never seen so much dog crap everywhere - it was about every two feet. Just because foxes and badgers and God knows what else poo all over the place doesn't mean it's acceptable to add to it with dog poo. Dog poo is vile.

To be fair to haychee, she did acknowledge the point about children with autism:

By haychee on Wed 11-Jul-07 21:58:26 I totally respect the issue of autistic children and this hadnt occurred to me before today, admitted.

Not that I agree with her on the main issue though, I think she should have puther dog on the lead the first time the mother picked up her child - it would be reasonable to asume that she had a valid reason for doing so.

Thank you Attila - big bloody thread now - didn't see that

Apologies Haychee !

It is so difficult because my son looks absoloutely fine to the casual observer and I have had dog walkers look at me as if I am pathetic and worse still, he is pathetic.
Kind of my point really - there are so many kids like my son who appear fine but just won't understand. I would always prefer to keep my big gorgeous dog on a lead until I can see what the walkers want to do. Better he is pulled on to the leash 20 times in a walk than that we distress a kid.

But, this area on this day of the op incident was a park that can only be acessed by car, and is one that allows dogs off leads. If this mother had such a fear then why on earth is she going to a park such as this where there are numerous dogs off leads? It just baffles me. Its probobly because i did not retaliate at the time that i have this pent up overly strong feelings about it.
And yes, after reading here i can now see and understand and totally sympathetic to austistic children. But then again im sure any caring mother of an autistic child would prefer to visit a park where dogs are not permitted off leads if they had the choice.

it was said here that by looking at a dog you cannot tell whether it is well trained or well mannered, you cant tell when its just wandering around. Then you must sympathise with us responsible dog owners as we cannot tell your child is autistic either. Im not attacking you its just to point out that we do not go around with a billboard saying this dog is well trained or this child is autistic etc

Haychee, it sounds like you are a responsible dog owner. I agree that it is a bit stupid for children/parents to hop up and down when a dog is on a lead. We have done a lot of work with ds to stop him from doing this (he still struggles sometimes), the biggest problem is dogs who bound over and try and jump up on him (even when he has not noticed the dog, so is not unwittingly inviting the dog to play)so I am very pleased that your dogs don't do this.

Where I live there are no parks that prohibit dogs or stipulate that they must be on a lead.

Haychee,

I think you just need to accept that you can't control other people's emotions / reactions / feelings. You acted in the right manner by not swearing back or making a fuss and therefore are the more dignified party.

The woman in question shouldn't have sworn (especially not in front of a child.) But you don't have any control over that.

Your dog was roaming off the lead, the park is obviously for humans and dogs alike to enjoy. You will get people on there from time to time without dogs. You will just have to accept that. People who aren't dog owners probably enjoy the scenery as much as you do.

As a dog owner (and yes I have been one) you just sometimes have to accept that there might be situations where you either need to call your dog to your side or put him/her on the lead.

Lots of people do teach their children (very rightly so in my opinion) that dogs are not toys and to be wary of them. This happens in the same manner when a child goes near a horse. All riders are taught from a young age that horses do have a mind of their own. Get one spooked and it will run amock. Even if it's the nicest horse on the planet.