children that are firghtened of dogs and how i find some parents are encouraging their fear

[haychee]

I have 2 medium to large dogs and i get so cross when i come accross children that just lose the plot if the dogs go near them. I can understand that they are frightened and i call the dogs away from the child instantly. But what makes me cross is the parents responses, "that dog should be on a lead" or i just get looks that could kill you dead. My arguement is, that if the child is that frightened then why would you take him or her to a place where dogs are everywhere in a dog walking area. Why do parents encourage their childrens fear by making these comments? what good does it do for the child? I actually saw one mother once who picked her child up every time the dog was anywhere close (like 4-5meters away). The child got increasingly anxious and the mother ended up having a go at me. I know and fully appreciate that some dogs are dangerous but mine arent and i think that when parents react like this infront of their children the message they are displaying is that its ok to be this frightened of dogs.

My daughter was once frightened of thunder so i purposely sat up with her watching a storm and saying things like "wow, that one was very loud" and " cor, look at that lightening isnt it beautiful". Because of this time i spent with her and the way we watched it together has dulled her fear - infact she gets quite excited if there is a storm brewing now.
Any one else feel the same or can understand where im coming from? or maybe your one of these types of parents that react like this? I would like to discuss the issue if anyone has any comments?

duchesse (I see you've abbreviated your name) - I personally think that this approach is sound (re your dog poo) in the specific set of circumstances you describe. Some of these city dwelling folk simply won't ever understand

and I agree spidermama re knee jerk hysteria. There has been some pure derangement on this thread (although I hasted to add quite a few balanced and sensible posts on either side)

i dont think this thread is hysterical, hysterically funny, i mean, haychee may be full of shit but her threads seem to cheer me up somehow.

Your dog sounds like he was wonderfully trained spidermamma, well done. However my view is that in certain areas it is safer to keep dogs on leads. You are definately right about a leashed dog being more likely to show aggression, that is usually more to do with them being protective. Over dominant dogs tend to be like this and their owners need to put them in their place at the BOTTOM of the pack. This is not so say that i dont think we should respect dogs but that as potentially dangerous animals they need to be well trained and under control.

I was horrified the other day, whilst out on our walk along the beach (after our visit to the pub on the beach ) the dog of someone sitting outside the pub had wandered off and went bounding up to someones two year old (ish). The parents were rightfully horrified and chased the thing away. Totally irresponsible of the owner, the dog was out of his sight let alone out of control. I happen to know the dog (belongs to local shop owner) and whilst its OK with kids, i wouldnt trust it 100% as it is a nervy border collie. I am afraid that had I been the parent of the two year old i would have lobbed stones at the bloody dog. I love dogs but to have one come charging towards my child with the owner no where in sight, i would put my child first.

Er, no, handleme, I am the one and only duchesse, to my knowledge. Case of mistaken identity?

I wasn't very clear - I meant that dogs on leads may be more likely to bite but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be kept on the leads in urban areas. spidermama you sound like a very responsible dog owner but a large number of dog owners aren't. If the only dogs who were let off leads were ones that would immediately come to heel when called that would be lovely. Sadly there are a lot of very badly trained dogs around.

Don't just stick them on leads, muzzle the fuckers too.

I've found a nice tin of Chappie with a good quantity of warfarin mixed in with it sees off an unpleasant dog quite effectively.

dogs are minging.

Duchesse ROTFL re the shit (i mean dung) - I actually nearly started a thread about this very thing the other day. If i take my child to walk in the woods, not even knee deep in mud, one with a proper path, i expect that she might pick up rabbit poo, fox poor, maybe even black panter poo (its rumoured that one is on the loose around here - well urban mythed). I certainly dont pick up my dogs poo from the woods, why would i bother?? If he went on the path bit i might kick it into the grass, maybe. Woods where there is no actually proper path, no way. So, why is it then that i get back to the car park to find that some moronic owners have not only wasted their time picking up their dogs shit, they have bagged it and dumped the bags by the map of the woods in the entrance to the car park in some sort of bizzare protest at there being no poop bins. ITS A FORREST FOR FUCK SAKE, ITS FULL OF FOX SHIT!!!!!

Lazyline:
Or rather:
hchee-hchee-hchee-hchee-hchee-hchee...

I am trying to put together a tactful question now without hopefully offending anyone or causing upset - so don't leap on me, but I genuinely am interested in your answers.

My children are not very fearful - of pretty much anything (although they are quite sensible and know when to be cautious - eg road sense etc).

Now I am not necessarily patting myself on the back in smug self satisfied 'didn't I do well' fashion, but have wondered if it is anything to do with my brusque no nonsense approach to things? (or is it genes, snigger)

For instance ds when aged 2 and before we got our dog showed (perhaps innate in small children for obvious reasons - dogs are excitable, often bigger then children etc)some anxiety over dogs.

My (unthinking) instintive approach was to tell him not to be silly, he(she) won't hurt you. It's a nice doggy - see nice doggy? whilst I approached dog with confidence extending my hand etc (after checking with owner).

His fear quickly evaporated. T'was that simple. I then later supplemented this with explaining the more complex message that you shouldn't assume all dogs are friendly, and to ask the owner (or the grown up with him) before going over to a strange dog and saying hello

Is that such an unreasonable approach? Criticise constructively if you want - I am open minded. But please do it politely without resorting to an MN bitchfest because I am tired and cranky and may give rude people both barrels and them some

I own two medium size mutts who are very friendly I do understand that some kids are scared of dogs and try to explian to them that if they scream and flap about it makes the dogs all excited want to play even more sometimes this works sometime it doesnt but I really do wish parents would teach their kids what to do if they come across a dog if they are on their own as not all dogs are with owners a screaming child and an uncontrolled dog is a recipe for disaster and I know all dogs should be controled but simple sad fact not all areit is important to teach your child to remain cal and focused until dog has passed or until help is available encourage them not to shout screm or flap about as this only attracts dogs atention even more. I know it all very well saying my dogs are ok but they are not they are only ever ok with you even the most experianced dog owner with the most docile dog can not predict their pets reaction to someth ing so dog owners must appreciate fear aswell

i meant 'instinctive'

duchesse - i probably have got the wrong person then! but that notwithstanding, what I said stands, lol

Lucyellen I agree. I find dog poos in plastic, non biodegradable bags dumped in the woods. I am not a dog owner currently but love to walk in the woods with my kids and I would much rather the dogs just poo'd on the ground. Madness. Horrible bags of festering poo littering the paths or even hanging on trees like little time bombs.

Kerrymumbledore - I don't think dogs should be on beaches in high season actually, and good beaches put up signs prohibiting this

HMC I think you've shown good parenting and excellent, realistic risk assessment.

Kerry I honestly think teaching your child to fear or be wary of animals is far more likely to get them bitten. Dogs notice fear and it breeds fear. They'll fulfill your expecations of them.

I think they should be taught respect for animals which is different altogether.

handlemecarefully, i agree to a point.

My DD is two, and loves dogs, has absolutely no fear, probably due to the fact that her first "brother" was a ten stone rotweiller (saddly passed away). This of course is problematic as she will happily approach any dog she sees, shes not going to ask first, cos shes two . I am mindful of offending owners by telling DD not to touch i just tell her not to touch because she might frighten the doggie. People do sometimes get upset if i tell DD not to touch their dogs and say "oh but he loves children" etc etc. Then thats fine, DD gets to say hello. Can't be doing with strange dogs licking her face though. My dogs, ok, i know they are wormed and healthy.

Why thanks Spidermama!

Thanks for your response Kerry but in truth I'm not convinced (and thanks for being polite in your response) -ds hasn't seemed to find it a mixed message. He is not generally fearful of dogs, and yet he will not approach one without checking with me (and I check with owner) first. Surely the proof of the pudding is in the eating?

Also he will be significantly older than he is currently (3) before he is out and about on his own (and likely to encounter a dog on his own) without an adult 'supervisor'

re piles of bagged dog poo. My children went to school in Canada for a year where there had once been a a dog poo bin on a lamppost outside the school. The city had removed the bin, but owners kept leaving their bagged shit against the lamppost. Every so often, the council rubbish people would clear it up, but after the first snowfall, a small pile of bagged shit remained from December to March, when at first thaw the pile was uncovered and a 6 yr old slipped on ice and fell face first into it as he arrived at school in the morning. Poor kid had to go home to shower.

I put signs up in two languages. Dog poo dumping mostly stopped. Signs then disappeared and poo dumping resumed.

Some people really are that stupid, and some of 'em own dogs.

Bagged shit really gets my goat.

I have a tireless campaigner in my neighbourhood who draws in chalk around all dog poo on the pavement and leaves a message like 'clean it up' or 'Hmm, nice!'. He or she has been doing it for years.

I rmemeber when I wsa a kid there were no such things as dog poo bins even in urban parks. That'll be why no-one ever went to them.

"Dogs notice fear and it breeds fear"

Which is why I have been known to detour by 2 miles or more to avoid a lone dog. Fear can be crippling. I am not a complete freak, there are some dogs I like thoroughly, and some long gone that I mourn. I am actually braver when with my dcs - perhaps having somebody to protect helps, or maybe it just makes me try harder not to pass on more fear than is rational.

And some dogs do still jump/bark, no matter how still and quiet you are.

And just try explaining to a child that if they are scared, a dog is more likely to be nasty.

when i was younger i remember the council making sure dogs were kerbed, and only shat in the edge of the pavement. It makes much more sense to pick up the poo, on the beach, in the park, on the pavement. And as someone said to me once, it warms the hands wonderfully in the winter (yuck) ill never get used to the warm dog shit feel, even if it is through a plastic nappy bag. I do think bag dispensers are a good idea as it has happened to me before that i have been caught without a bag - very embarrasing having to stand by a pile i steaming shit waiting for another dog owner to pass so i can ask for a bag.