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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Frustrated with tenants?

462 replies

thankunextex · 25/03/2019 10:13

I’m trying to view a house and the tenants have refused to let me view it both times. Appointments been booked in advance and then they say it’s not a good time an hour before.

I get it if you don’t want to actually leave the property (not sure if that’s the situation or not) but I’m just being messed around now.

OP posts:
pootyisabadcat · 26/03/2019 21:10

Sure, though I could never consider home to be a space I don't own.

When I book a hotel room I don't expect the proprietor to let him/herself in whenever he/she fancies. In fact the room is provided with a secondary bolt I throw when I get in the room and even add an alarm I carry.

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 26/03/2019 21:13

It's just shit when some tenants use those rights in the wrong way. And equally shit when landlords don't abide morally or legally to legislation.

Agreed.

DopeyDazy · 26/03/2019 21:14

we bought a tenanted bungalow at a discount because of the difficulty owner had selling though tenants had rolling contract. What do you expect when people are being thrown out they're not going to like it are they . BTW tenants have been lovely and 6 years on never missed a payment

AstonMartini · 26/03/2019 21:14

Thank you, @CheshireCat. I should probably not have looked at this thread, as I know LL are not popular on MN, and it's all a bit depressing. I do try, though, to be nice to my tenants and not to expect them to accommodate any silly whims on my part. I have been on the receiving end of absolutely vile LL in the past, which is another reason why I try to be nice. The 24 hour notice period may be a 'chocolate teapot', but I don't expect my tenants to just fit in with me at a moment's notice. By the same token, I hope they will be reasonably accommodating, and I don't expect them to make a house look like a show home. On the whole, a bit of give and take on either side works well.

53rdWay · 26/03/2019 21:14

First tenancy agreement I ever had, the contract had a clause along the lines of “if tenant is injured as a result of landlord’s failure to repair or maintain something, tenant agrees this is not the landlord’s fault and will not pursue landlord with any complaints about it.”

We had free legal advice then (students), so took it to a lawyer who literally laughed and said we could safely ignore that clause.

Things don’t become magic just because you put them in a contract. You can’t override existing law just because it would be convenient to you to force tenants to allow viewings on your schedule.

WiseNiceWoman · 26/03/2019 21:19

Find out all the details as adviced by all the messages. Because you don't want to be buying yourself into a whole lot of problem that you wished you had never gotten involved in.

safariboot · 26/03/2019 21:22

I also think there should a simple booklet produced that outlines the basics of renting.

This exists! There's a government guide online, and a copy is supposed to be given landlords to any new tenants.

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 26/03/2019 21:35

There's a government guide online, and a copy is supposed to be given landlords to any new tenants.

Yes it is, and if it isn’t, it is actually against guidelines and a penalty fine can be issued if the tenant pursued a small claim.

Viewings definitely can be refused outright by tenants, I’ve done it. A landlady refused to fix the heating and hot water, it took 6 months to force her through the help of the environmental health dept who issued 2 health hazard warnings. We were freezing and had intermittent hot water. She then issued us with a revenge eviction, and would not give us a reference despite always paying rent on time. This resulted in us not being able to secure a new home, without a significantly greater deposit. We then found out she had not protected our deposit for months, never signed it, and didn’t give us the booklet. I refused viewings. The EA said they couldn’t force us.
I took her to court, she was fined X 1 of our deposit, payable to us, and had to give 25% of rent back for not providing heating and hot water. She also had to put in new pipes and a boiler.

wafflyversatile · 26/03/2019 21:40

It’s a business, that you must have a contingency plan for if the shit hits the fan. You have to to risk assessments and one of those risks is that you will have months with no rental income

They should learn to budget better, like people are always saying people on benefits should.

AstonMartini · 26/03/2019 21:46

@JessicaWakefieldSVH, just for interest's sake... WWY have D if the LL had arranged for the heating to be fixed within 2 hours of you reporting it? This is what I did with one of my tenants, and he refused access, because he hadn't had 24 hrs' notice... So not all LL are evil, and not all tenants are saints.

Otherwise, it's shocking to see how much people hate LL. I try to be a nice LL. I have no income other than from property, so need the income - but also want to be kind and make my tenants feel that I care about them (because, on the whole, I do. We are all human, and we all deserve to be treated kindly and with respect). Yet I am still, apparently, a shit.

CheshireChat · 26/03/2019 21:49

I do think landlords should be more regulated, the good ones won't be massively inconvenienced and the bad ones... Well, it's obvious.

CheshireChat · 26/03/2019 21:52

AstonMartini I would've been tempted to tell him 'I'm sorry for trying to sort out repairs too quickly'.

Though perhaps he wasn't able to stay in to have the repairs done? DP's work is very difficult about stuff like that.

AstonMartini · 26/03/2019 21:56

@CheshireCat, I'd like to say this was the case, but he was just an awkward bugger (at home FT). He then left without giving any notice, though as he had been a PITA and I was glad he had left, I didn't pursue him for not having given statutory notice period. Happily, he is the minority (as are rubbish LL).

I would be glad to be more regulated, as it would just leave the decent LL. I hope I would be among the remaining ones.

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 26/03/2019 21:57

WWY have D if the LL had arranged for the heating to be fixed within 2 hours of you reporting it?
It happened, and we gave access. The LL was avoiding the actual necessary and identified problem, identified before we moved in, which was the replacement of very old and small heating pipes. This then also caused problems with the boiler which continuously broke down. We had, at least 15 visits at short notice. The LL was stupid, it just ended up costing far more money in emergency call outs as well, because she didn’t want to pay for the pipe replacement. We even organised a holiday so the replacement could eventually happen without us there, after the council enforced it.

Nobody is saying ‘all LL are shit’ ok, but just look at all the bad experiences here. Don’t take it as a personal slight, other LL have behaved badly, your issue should be with them not those they have treated badly.

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 26/03/2019 21:59

I didn't pursue him for not having given statutory notice period

It’s a simple process through the deposits tribunal, you withhold the rent owing and fill in a form with the deposit scheme you used. They deal with it pretty quickly.

Dionysa · 26/03/2019 22:09

@JessicaWakefieldSVH I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I don't have an issue with tenants generally, and am not going to have one with other LL (as you suggest). I think a bit of respect, kindness and flexibility either way works wonders. I don't treat my tenants badly, and they are generally lovely and obliging, so we are all happy. I've been a LL for 25 years, and have had very few problems, fortunately.

Of course I could have pursued my rotten tenant through the official channels. But he was a) difficult and b) unhappy. That being the case, I was happy just to let him go. Nobody needed to get upset or bothered. I could fill the vacancy, and he could move on.

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 26/03/2019 22:30

I think a bit of respect, kindness and flexibility either way works wonders

Yes it can do, and obviously, as you can see by reading all these accounts, it doesn’t always. Please do not imply I or other tenants deserve to be mistreated or that there aren’t rogue landlords, there are and many, like mine, are rightly prosecuted or fined. I’m suggesting that the tenants should not be blamed for having poor impressions of LL when they behave badly and illegally, the LL should.

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 26/03/2019 22:31

But he was a) difficult and b) unhappy.

You wouldn’t have had to deal with him at all, just the deposit dispute tribunal, assuming you protected the deposit. Simple process.

RidiculousFoodBills · 26/03/2019 22:32

I would like to ask all who stick up for tenants not allowing viewings and bash the landlord for selling, yet want more houses available to buyer occupier.
Do you see the hypocrisy here? The buyer will NOT buy a house without seeing it.
So how are the landlords supposed to sell?
Is it ok for tenants to refuse viewing, thus not allowing a buyer to buy? Or is it ok for landlords to keep a property for ever so tenants don't have to move? Or do you want more properties to be available for people to buy and live in?
What is it people want???

ILoveMaxiBondi · 26/03/2019 22:35

Do you see the hypocrisy here? The buyer will NOT buy a house without seeing it.
So how are the landlords supposed to sell?

Oh I don’t know, they could give notice and wait until the tenants are gone? Or is that too horrific a thought that they go without rental income for a few months?

Dalamane · 26/03/2019 22:37

Having been a tenant in this situation, I would advise any potential buyer to look elsewhere until the tenants have moved out - it's a nightmare you don't need. Estate agents and landlords aren't working on your behalf.

RidiculousFoodBills · 26/03/2019 22:52

@ILoveMaxiBondi you know many can't afford it. We already talked about it 🙄

I was a tenant in that position. But I knew that being a bitch about it will gain nithing. I allowed viewings but had a limit. Cooperated till the buyer came few days before exchange and said "You don't look like you are packing". She was an FTB and our agen messed up as far as I knew and didn't give us notice. It wasn't adversed as in situ... Then I got bitchy.

Landlord selling a property is not a reason to be uncooperative.
If they keep properties they are "bastards hording properties and FTBs have a little choice" and if they are selling them they are "bstards who don't care about tenants"
Can't win 🤷‍♀️

AstonMartini · 26/03/2019 23:02

@JessicaWakefieldSVH Sorry for previous NC fail. Of course I protected this particular tenant's deposit, as I do with all my tenants' deposits (via My Deposits). And of course I could have pursued him that way. However, he is an unhappy and frustrated human being and, however unreasonable he was being, if I could let him go and fill the gap without resorting to this kind of recourse, I was happy to do so. How could either of us have benefited from me going though My Deposits, if we could find a solution that worked for us both? I returned his deposit in full when he moved out. He has since been in touch with me to say how much he appreciated me being kind to him when he was in a bad way. I have no idea what was going on with him, but I am glad not to have contributed to his unhappiness, given that I had a chance not to.

I'm not sure how you think I am implying that tenants deserve to be badly treated. I think we should all treat one another as kindly as possible, whether we be tenants, landlords, or neither of these things. Bad LL should be penalised, obviously. So should bad tenants. But most people are decent people. Sometimes decent people can't quite match up to what they know is right. But that's when a bit of give and take is useful on either side.

53rdWay · 26/03/2019 23:06

What is it people want???

A better-regulated private rental sector.

Failing that, to not have estate agents who turn up unannounced and/or send viewers round unannounced, try to push viewings at times you’ve repeatedly told them won’t work, and expect tenants to keep the place in show-home condition throughout.

Jon65 · 27/03/2019 00:19

Even in an emergency, if the tenant refuses entry the LL can't enforce it. Even the police couldn't enter without a warrant.

I really don't know where some of you lot get your ideas, the Daily Mail maybe? This is so wrong where do I start. The police can and do frequently enter properties without a warrant. If they think there may (may is a very low threshold) be a threat to life, or if a crime is being committed, so please keep things accurate why don't you. I example welfare checks.

Neither is it illegal to enter the property as a landlord, in an emergency, or at any other time. If you think it is, please point me to to the statute. Some of you need a crash course in law. There are things that are against the law but entering a property of which you are the owner is not one of them. You are conflating two things, the criminal law and the civil law.