Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Frustrated with tenants?

462 replies

thankunextex · 25/03/2019 10:13

I’m trying to view a house and the tenants have refused to let me view it both times. Appointments been booked in advance and then they say it’s not a good time an hour before.

I get it if you don’t want to actually leave the property (not sure if that’s the situation or not) but I’m just being messed around now.

OP posts:
Jon65 · 26/03/2019 20:10

Nearly every tenancy agreement I have seen, which is many, has a clause about allowing viewings. The tenants agree to the terms when they sign up. If they don't want the clause in, they are free to try to negotiate it out of the agreement. Breaching a contract is never a good idea, on either side.

lyralalala · 26/03/2019 20:12

Gosh I’m shocked at people saying the EA’s have just let themselves in to rented properties unannounced. Really?

Estate agents and letting agents are a law unto themselves.

My first ever tenant was managed by a letting agent. I met the tenant and they were very vocal about planning on being in the area long term so I was really surprised when at the end of the first year they gave their notice.

As it happened there was an issue with the boiler about a week before they were due to leave and they couldn't get a hold of the agent so they called me. I found them really rude and abrupt, but went round anyway as it was a setting issue not a repair.

While I was there I discovered that the agent had let themselves in for inspections when the letter had only arrived that morning twice (I hadn't even asked for inspections!), that the agent had set up the direct debit wrongly so it actually came out the day before they got paid and the first one had caused a world of hassle. There was also four repairs, including a dripping tap that must have been as annoying as fuck, that they'd reported more than once that the agent hadn't bothered passing on to me. They'd also been a nightmare for the tenant with trying to give them last minute notice of viewings (yet told me the tenants had actively said they didn't mind viewings once or twice a week!),

They were moving because they thought they had a really shit landlord, and in many ways they were right - I employed the agent and they were utter shit. Ever since then I always ask for any problems or repairs to come direct to me, even while I still had the agent (had a contract that I had to let run) as I don't wnat to be in that situation again.

lyralalala · 26/03/2019 20:14

Nearly every tenancy agreement I have seen, which is many, has a clause about allowing viewings. The tenants agree to the terms when they sign up. If they don't want the clause in, they are free to try to negotiate it out of the agreement. Breaching a contract is never a good idea, on either side.

It's not a breach of contract if it's not a legally enforcable clause. LL's can put what they like in there, but when they go to court for enforcement it won't stand up if it's unreasonable.

HarrysOwl · 26/03/2019 20:15

So maybe spare a thought for those that can never ever own.

I only described my personal feelings (my rentals never felt like proper 'home'). Everyone feels differently.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 26/03/2019 20:16

If they don't want the clause in, they are free to try to negotiate it out of the agreement.

They don’t have to because it’s unenforceable so they can go ahead and sign without fear.

Jon65 · 26/03/2019 20:21

It's not a breach of contract if it's not a legally enforcable clause. LL's can put what they like in there, but when they go to court for enforcement it won't stand up if it's unreasonable

Pleased you're not my lawyer lol

ColeHawlins · 26/03/2019 20:23

Pleased you're not my lawyer lol

Why? Confused

You wouldn't want a lawyer who just told you what you wanted to hear, that your contract trumps UK law, that you can get unenforceable clauses enforced, etc., would you?

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 26/03/2019 20:28

If they don't want the clause in, they are free to try to negotiate it out of the agreement. Breaching a contract is never a good idea, on either side.

You don’t understand the law. The tenancy agreements are all identical, there’s no ‘negotiating’ on clauses generally speaking. The law overrides any contract, and any unenforceable clauses. The laws around tendency’s are written to protect both landlord and tenant, and to ensure landlords don’t use the fact tenants need a place to live, to include unfair terms.

lyralalala · 26/03/2019 20:35

Pleased you're not my lawyer lol

I’m quite happy for knowing at least my tenant knows I have a clue about about the law around what I can and can’t enforce in a tenancy agreement

Treefloof · 26/03/2019 20:37

Nearly every tenancy agreement I have seen, which is many, has a clause about allowing viewings. The tenants agree to the terms when they sign up. If they don't want the clause in, they are free to try to negotiate it out of the agreement. Breaching a contract is never a good idea, on either side
Thing about this clause is
It will cost the landlord money to go to court to enforce.
It will take some time to get to court, being as courts are backed up.
By the time the court case has been and done, likely the tenants will have moved on and it's all history, and how much do you ask for in compensation, and finally how do you enforce it should a judge agree. So unlikely a prospect, it's called an unenforceable clause.

Commonpeoplelikeme · 26/03/2019 20:39

How stupid. Quiet enjoyment my arse. Then again what do you expect in a country with stupid squatters laws.....

A period of notice should be sufficient to allow potential buyers to view the house. But obviously not. Ahh the stupidity.

dontticklethetoad · 26/03/2019 20:41

I was the tenant in a similar situation once. We had agreed set viewing timeslots with the landlord and estate agent but the EA kept trying to squeeze in more people outside those. So we regularly turned people down on what looked to them like short notice. Was the EA’s own fault there

Exactly this.

londonrach · 26/03/2019 20:44

Really dont understand why people having problems with this. Tenants do not have to allow acces for viewing ever!!!!!!! Yes some ea and ll put this illegal none forceable clause in the contract. It would be laughed at if you took it a property lawyer. Its illegal! Access with 24 hours is for maintance or sos repairs but only under agreement. Dispose is only for repair on flat or house nothing else. Be careful if you dont know the law. I wish every ll and ea had a crash course on property law. I remember fondly (not) the ea who wanted go check out my marks and spencer underwear in my chest of drawers. He had no reason to be there and was caught with his hands in my knickers. As a direct result dh and i refused every single viewings in ever rental property since till we escaped the rental market. Im lucky as property law is something we know inside out and back to front.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 26/03/2019 20:47

How stupid. Quiet enjoyment my arse.

You think people having quiet enjoyment of their home is stupid? Confused

HarrysOwl · 26/03/2019 20:47

Quiet enjoyment my arse

Thing is it's absolutely right to have quiet enjoyment and tenants should have the right to refuse access. It needs to be as black and white as that to avoid exploiting.

If, legally, landlords could enforce entry it could lead to a bad landlord exploiting that (turning up whenever, harrassing, intimidating etc). A tenant's privacy should be protected.

It's just shit when some tenants use those rights in the wrong way. And equally shit when landlords don't abide morally or legally to legislation.

AstonMartini · 26/03/2019 20:50

What a lot of posts on a relatively non-descript topic. I am a bit Hmm at the hatred shown towards LL (accidental or otherwise) on here. I will add, too, that my DP is a long-term renter (20 years plus) with a crappy LL, so I can see it from both angles.

@Thankunextex, I agree that the LL should have sorted out viewings in advance, if s/he didn't do so.

Just to throw my lot into this... I let out several properties, and am in the process of selling one. Those on ASTs have a clause saying that I, or anyone else acting for me, has a right to enter the property - with a minimum of 24 hours' notice. I don't have an agent (because IME, they are not as efficient as I am). The tenants in my property for sale are happy to allow viewings, with notice. I don't expect them to clean the house in the way that I would for a viewing, and have told them so. My house sale is not their problem.

I have had only one shitty tenant, in 25 years of being a LL, who insisted on the 24 hour notice period when the central heating boiler broke and he was freezing. I sorted out an instant repair, but said tenant then refused access to the British Gas man on the grounds that I hadn't given him 24 hours' notice. Confused

So while some LL are undoubtedly shits, this is also true of some tenants.

OTOH, most LL and tenants are, happily, both lovely and willing to meet one another half way. It seems you have copped for some unfortunate ones, OP. Don't give up, though, if you love the house.

lyralalala · 26/03/2019 20:50

A period of notice should be sufficient to allow potential buyers to view the house. But obviously not. Ahh the stupidity.

This house has been on the market for four months - how long do you think a tenant should have to accept viewings for? Six months? The whole tenancy?

ILoveMaxiBondi · 26/03/2019 20:52

It's just shit when some tenants use those rights in the wrong way.

The only wrong way it could be used would be to deny access for emergency reasons (like a flood or something else damaging the property) but tenants don’t actually have the right to deny access in an emergency so they wouldn’t be using their rights in the wrong way if they did this.

CalmDownPacino · 26/03/2019 20:54

Those on ASTs have a clause saying that I, or anyone else acting for me, has a right to enter the property - with a minimum of 24 hours' notice

Again!! It matters not one jot what clause you have written into your ASTs. It is not legally enforceable. You have NO right to enter their home, 24 hours notice or not. Barring emergencies such as gas leaks.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 26/03/2019 20:57

Those on ASTs have a clause saying that I, or anyone else acting for me, has a right to enter the property - with a minimum of 24 hours' notice.

Another chocolate teapot clause.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 26/03/2019 20:58

I don’t know whether it’s more hilarious or terrifying that there are so many ignorant landlords here.

HarrysOwl · 26/03/2019 20:58

The only wrong way it could be used would be to deny access for emergency reasons

Like you've said (many, many, many times...) It's still not enforceable.

Tenants have the right to change the locks and not give LL a copy of the key.

Even in an emergency, if the tenant refuses entry the LL can't enforce it. Even the police couldn't enter without a warrant.

There are some shitty tenants. There are some shitty landlords. There are a great, great many shitty letting agents.

pootyisabadcat · 26/03/2019 21:00

Several on the thread have had experience of only being told last minute in that istuation

On not at all, is quite common.

I don't see this as a LL bashing thread but an EA bashing one, because they just do whatever the fuck they like and yeah, no one who is paying for the hire of that space has to like it or capitulate to it. We stopped doing so when we were renting because had too many just treating the space for which we'd paid the hire of as a common green. Fuck that.

CheshireChat · 26/03/2019 21:07

TBF it doesn't sound like AstonMartini is abusing that clause in any way.

Current landlord is lovely and we'll happily allow some viewings when possible as he was decent throughout.

No way would I have said yes with our first landlord as he was a pain in the arse .

HarrysOwl · 26/03/2019 21:10

Another chocolate teapot clause.

Well, it's not entirely.

Breaking a clause in the contract like permitting access for inspections (for example) does give grounds for the LL to serve notice (section 8 or 21) to terminate the AST, as long as the requested access was deemed reasonable by the courts. Daytime inspections and viewings with at least 24 hours' notice are invariably deemed reasonable.

It's just better all round if the tenant/landlord relationship can be kept positive and respectful (on both sides).