To question my long held beliefs against capital punishment after what happened to Alesha MacPhail

[Noteventhebirdsareupyet]

Hi all,

I have recently been really shaken by the Alesha MacPhailcase and possibly because I now have a tiny daughter of my own, I am feeling really affected by what has happened.

I have always had reasonably strong views against capital punishment and have often argued that:

No one has the right to take the life of another.

When capital punishment is lawful, mistakes are made and innocent people get killed.

We are supposedly a civilised society.

Often offenders were victims first and therefore need empathy and have been failed by the system.....

However I am now shocked to find myself thinking that if a person can do the things that Aaron Campbell has done to a tiny, innocent girl and show absolutely no remorse, then perhaps instead of spending hundreds of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money keeping him incarcerated and then putting communities at risk upon his release, maybe we as a society should say that this person is intrinsically evil and has no place among us.

I honestly never imagined myself feeling like this and maybe it is because I am now a mother that I do. Surely people like him don't deserve a second chance and should be killed before they ruin more lives.

Am I being unreasonable to feel like this? Has anyone else had a turning point like me? I feel that my family and friends would be a bit shocked to hear me say "let's kill dangerous criminals" but this incident has had a profound effect on my outlook and I feel like I can't voice my opinions out loud.

It's funny I understand the want to kill such abhorrent murderers, and yet in cases of murder where the perpetrator has killed themselves in the process I feel angry that they have escaped and not had to face justice.
I am against the death penalty. I too suspect he will not lead a cushy life in prison if that will comfort you at all, despite what tabloids would have you believe prisons are not social clubs. In addition child murderers and paedophiles are not popular in prison society. (However surprisingly few are actually killed in UK prisons, Ian Huntley is still alive).

I fantasise about having a super power where I could just very gently put people to sleep without being caught. I'd just lightly touch them and they would die in their sleep. No distress, just removed from this world. Probably for the best that neither I nor anyone else has this power!

OP I think it's OK to feel and express this. Although I don't know if you REALLY believe it. For example, are you likely to start an online petition to bring it back, or lobby your MP about it?

Mysterian are you for real, I am sure you would not be saying that if that happened to your young child! He was a nasty evil child killer, please don't forget that.

Had a urge my arse, An urge is to stuff the chocolate cake, not rape and murder a child, blaming his conscious for not being loud enough is ridiculous. He is evil, most likely always has been a growing psychopath.
RIP Alesha.

it's inherently implausible given both the low quality of most CCTV footage and the fact that people who want to rape and kill children usually make at least some effort to cover it up

What about the NZ killer? Evidence is enough to execute him right? How about Chris Watts?

I don’t believe that death penalty is a deterrent at all nor do I think that punishment is the point. Their death in a civilized system will always be more merciful than their victims.

But some people need to be taken down like a rabid dog. Just done away with quietly for the good of society.

I also think there is no way that prison will become harsher. Countries that outlaw death penalty are also against forced labor/harsh prison conditions.

Besides, rehabilitation is a fine goal but we all know there is a minority of people that can never be helped. It’s almost insulting to try.

plainspeaking he is NOT a child!

16 year olds are considered adults in a Scotland for many things. Personally I would love to bring back the death penalty for cases such as this. Why should he be allowed to live even in prison?

Do the world a favour and hang him!

There is evidence that certain people are definitely guilty of specific crimes, yes. But OPs example was a daft one and even if it weren't, when the death penalty exists it doesn't stay confined to narrow, definitely guilty circumstances. It's all very well theorising about safeguards, but there's no system where it actually works like that. Systems that involve humans mean human error.

In Scotland for criminal purposes a 16 year old is an older child and will be treated differently than an 18 year old.

The latest change in law in Scotland changed even changed for how 16 year olds are treated in a police office during interview.

I don’t necessarily agree with it, but a 16 year old is NOT an adult for criminal proceedings.

As horrific and disturbing as this case was I could not condone state executions of anyone, particularly children. I find your comment below to be very disturbing.

I suppose I'm forced to admit that I think anyone guilty of a crime like this deserves to die whether they are 10 or 110. I am shocked to feel like this but I do.... John Venebles and Robert Thompson should have been killed age 10 and not released

Robert Thompson hasn’t re offended to our knowledge, he was traumatised and only guilty by association.

Despite the individual being 'only 16', he knew exactly what he was doing, and was cold and calculating, no sympathy at all

What is the relevance of whether you have sympathy? No-one on here is suggesting Campbell should be sympathised with.

I totally loath the 'he was only 16, a child brigade' minimising and excusing this horrendous crime.

Again, I haven't seen anyone doing this.

Prison is no longer a punishment or a deterrent.

Really? Wouldn't it deter you from committing a crime, Notwotuknow? I have to admit I'm pretty deterred by the prospect of being locked up for years of end, unable to see my friends and family when I want to, with no choice about what I do. If my potential crime was such that it also involved being banged up with a load of violent people many of whom will be looking for a chance of cheap glory by maiming me, it would definitely be a major deterrent.

And, of course, there is no evidence that the death penalty is a deterrent. It's worth reflecting on the fact that we still had it when Brady and Hindley started killing children.

Mysterian are you for real, I am sure you would not be saying that if that happened to your young child!

So , by that logic, areoflot what would you be saying if it was your child who killed another child?

Nope. On every level. Putting aside the morals, CP makes vastly more problems than it solves.

Look at the USA. In states with CP, murder rates are no lower. So its not a deterrent.

Nor does it save money. The exhaustive appeal process means that often, even more money is spent.

Convictions. Its hard to get convictions for murder and rape already. Would you send someone to their death, if you were on a jury?

Guilty v not guilty. Do you suggest making a third category, called OMG TOTALLY GUILTY which allows for CP? What about those found ordinary guilty? Just life in prison for them?

Who does the killing? Increasingly, people in the USA don't want the job of executioner. In some states, there's a backlog of executions because the drug manufacturers have withdrawn the licence for their products to be used in this way.

It doesn't work. None of the logic adds up. We can't just euthanize 'the worst criminals' because who says who the worst ones are?

That's why no civilised society will ever adopt it.

I feel like prison is too good for people like him. I really do. I dont know what I would suggest instead but I know if it was my child who was murdered I would wish him dead. I think he is evil and I hate the idea that one day he could be released into society. I don't want my money to feed him. I don't want my money to provide him shelter and warmth.

I understand why the death penalty isn't a thing over here. And I agree. Largely. But I don't agree with us funding his life in prison either.

Thinking more on the subject of the New Zealand terrorist, on purely pragmatic grounds, I don't think it's a good idea to give people like him the opportunity to be seen as martyrs of the state. In a lot of cases, death is what they want, and it has propaganda value. I appreciate that sometimes terrorists will have to be killed by state forces just before or during their murder sprees. Nothing to be done about that. But afterwards, no. Jihadists in particular are in a death cult. Of course we shouldn't give them that!

Is there anyone on this thread who can tell us what holiday in jail is like?

For 27 years?

I'm quite sure that if my child were murdered I would want the perpetrator dead. In fact, I would want the death to be slow and very, very painful. But I really don't think that society can be governed by anyone's primitive revenge responses.

I was previously supported the death penalty but now I’m much older I’ve changed my opinion entirely.

There will always be miscarriages of justice and on innocent person put to death is one too many. Also, I’d never want anything to do with people knowing their loved one was to be executed. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. It’s beyond human.

Bilal Abdullah for example, the Glasgow airport attempted bomber, I'm actually pleased he's still alive and in prison. He wanted martyrdom and he hasn't got it. I'm kind of sorry Kafeel Ahmed died too. It's saved us paying for his incarceration I suppose, but death is what he wanted.

I really don't think that society can be governed by anyone's primitive revenge responses.

I agree people can come out with sick things like suggesting the execution of 10 year olds.

Nope fuck that guy. If that little girl was my daughter I'd kill him myself. Even if I had to wait for him to get out of prison, he'd be dead not long after his release.

Fuck you aaron campbell you heap of SHIT!

He will be out by 50.

Incredibly unlikely. Remember, this is only a minimum sentence and that, in order to be released, he will have to satisfy a parole board very thoroughly indeed that he is fit and safe to be released. Given that he appears, at the very least, to have strong psychopathic tendencies and it is highly unlikely that we will find a way to reverse that in the next 27 years, I can't see how he can achieve that.

Unspiritual I am giving my opinion like all on here, and yes I have seen it a couple of times.

What if he does get a conscience? What if he does empathise?

He's 16, after all.

It's understandable that the animal urge for revenge could appear in your heart, but your brain says it's wrong and you follow that. The killer had an urge too. I'm sure his brain said it was wrong as well but he didn't listen

echt he was not a child in criminal proceedings. We have urges to eat cake, or buy clothes, not to rape and murder 6 year old little girls in their beds. I bet you would not be so supportive if you were in her parent's awful position, stop minimising his crimes.