To question my long held beliefs against capital punishment after what happened to Alesha MacPhail

[Noteventhebirdsareupyet]

Hi all,

I have recently been really shaken by the Alesha MacPhailcase and possibly because I now have a tiny daughter of my own, I am feeling really affected by what has happened.

I have always had reasonably strong views against capital punishment and have often argued that:

No one has the right to take the life of another.

When capital punishment is lawful, mistakes are made and innocent people get killed.

We are supposedly a civilised society.

Often offenders were victims first and therefore need empathy and have been failed by the system.....

However I am now shocked to find myself thinking that if a person can do the things that Aaron Campbell has done to a tiny, innocent girl and show absolutely no remorse, then perhaps instead of spending hundreds of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money keeping him incarcerated and then putting communities at risk upon his release, maybe we as a society should say that this person is intrinsically evil and has no place among us.

I honestly never imagined myself feeling like this and maybe it is because I am now a mother that I do. Surely people like him don't deserve a second chance and should be killed before they ruin more lives.

Am I being unreasonable to feel like this? Has anyone else had a turning point like me? I feel that my family and friends would be a bit shocked to hear me say "let's kill dangerous criminals" but this incident has had a profound effect on my outlook and I feel like I can't voice my opinions out loud.

I used to be all for capital punishment when younger, but have changed my mind now - frankly, mostly because America demonstrates that it's not an effective deterrent anyway and the cost associated with the amount of red tape that it takes to get anyone to the conclusion of that sentence is certainly not a cost saving anyway.

There is no easy answer to cases like this. He should clearly never be released though, and like others I wouldn't shed a tear if he decided to take his own life.

I don't think it's a decision to be made on the basis of an emotional response to a particular murder.
Would so many people be coming out in support of the death penalty if the victim had been an adult man?

@echt Why is this case beyond horrific and irredeemable? Must I? Others may want to skip this post.

Have I said this? Clue: no.

Some persons are beyond rehabilitation. I'm not a fan of this word but I do feel there are some really evil folks in the world-do harm (rape, murder etc) without conscience and empathy.
Unpopular and purportedly barbaric as it is--I'm in favour of the death penalty, to be applied only in extreme cases.
I agree with PPs that life should mean life though.

Nicknacky who gives a shit about his mental health issues? I don’t. He’s a vile evil little shit. I watched the sentencing video and heard the mother’s screams (which were presumably after he turned to smile at her). That will stay with me forever. As a mum of a little girl myself I found the whole case especially upsetting.

I believe in capital punishment - for personal reasons very close to me. It’s a shame that I (and all of you) will have to pay for a somewhat comfortable life for this boy who thought it was ok to rape and murder a 6 year old. Apparently he had to stop himself from laughing when the verdict was read. What a great specimen for humanity. He gets to live - albeit in contained circumstances while a child was brutally raped and murdered.

This is a vile and dispicable individual, he should suffer for the rest of his life in prison not in luxury, but the bare minimum. No playstations, TV, luxuries, but hard graft, basic food and lights out at 9pm.

UnspiritualHome, since you are determined to dredge up any example of a case where someone was wrongly convicted, what about a hypothetical question: someone is caught raping and killing a child on cctv. You still believe they have a right to life even if they are guilty beyond any doubt whatsoever?

In response to your comment about AC being 16 and therefore escaping capital punishment anyway, I suppose I'm forced to admit that I think anyone guilty of a crime like this deserves to die whether they are 10 or 110. I am shocked to feel like this but I do. John Venebles and Robert Thompson (who is now reportedly enjoying his life safely benefiting from anonymity by the way) should have been killed age 10 and not released.

I don't support the death penalty as I don't believe one human has the right to take the life of another. Even if that's what they have done.

The death penalty I don't think is cheaper because of the legal costs, they get so many appeals etc.

But in cases like these, any child murder cases, or where the murder us just random and in cold blood, then life should mean life. I would pay more tax for longer sentences for violent crimes.

I do think suicide should be an option for these people though, if there's a rope in the corner of the cell and they decide to use it then win-win, the state saves money on their incarcaration without the legal costs of the death penalty.

What if he does get a conscience? What if he does empathise?

He's 16, after all.

Unpopular and purportedly barbaric as it is--I'm in favour of the death penalty, to be applied only in extreme cases

Would you care to define those cases?

@echt apologies, you asked me to explain why I felt people might not understand how extreme his crime was. Basically, I was trying to make the point that it went been murder (as terrible as that ever is).

Anyway, it will always be a super emotive subject, so obviously arguments about it will always become linked to emotion. I know everyone feels it's terrible. But for me personally, I think in these extreme beyond doubt cases then the death penalty should be considered. I don't expect the law to change anytime soon though, and I do understand why others feel it should never be allowed, as I did once feel this too.

Beyond not been

I still think the death penalty is fine in principle. Problem in the States is that it has too often been used in more run-of-the-mill cases because of traditional beliefs about punishment and deterrence.

We know deterrence doesn’t work. And punishment is beside the point.

For instance, the New Zealand killer should be executed. Timothy McVeigh’s execution was the right call. Breivnik is practically laughing at us from his comfy cell. Some crimes are just too great; these people should be put down like rabid dogs. There’s no chance of rehabilitation so what is the point?

TooTrueToBeGood

I haven't once claimed to be special or more affected by this case than anyone else, just stated that it has really upset me and made me question my own beliefs.

Thanks for being the first proper nut job to join the thread though, there's always one!

It's already possible to alter videos in a way that's basically undetectable. It wont be long before all video evidence will have some level of doubt. Technology and crime are always in an arms race.
And I think I'd rather pay for someone to live in prison than live in a society where I could be legally killed. Of course I'd rather pay to contribute to a society that does everything it can to avoid raising killers (not saying that 'society is to blame' in this particular case)

Would you care to define those cases?

No.

Yes, OP, I do believe that people who have killed beyond any doubt have a right to life, for all the reasons I have explained above, but primarily because to kill them puts us on a par with or even below them. If you want an example of such a person, look at Ian Brady: for him, being kept alive was a much, much greater punishment than hanging.

UnspiritualHome, since you are determined to dredge up any example of a case where someone was wrongly convicted, what about a hypothetical question: someone is caught raping and killing a child on cctv. You still believe they have a right to life even if they are guilty beyond any doubt whatsoever?

Fuck your hypothetical CCTV rapes and consider the actual number of people killed by the state when innocent:

www.newsweek.com/one-25-executed-us-innocent-study-claims-248889

I don't want a return to capital punishment, but there are some people I wouldn't be overly sad to hear had taken their own life in prison.

The thought of the amount of money that will have to be spent protecting society from this one individual for (hopefully/likely) the rest of his life is a bit galling.

Would you care to define those cases?

No

Bless.

I have to say, OP, the point where you advocated the execution of 10 year olds is the point where I really struggle to believe you when you claim to have had strong views against capital punishment in the past.

Chlo Two points to that. 1. He doesn’t have mental health issues. 2. If he had any then no I wouldn’t give a shit.

I never said I did care about his mental health.

I’m entirely with Janeyre. The treatment she describes used to be the standard way prisoners were treated, they didn’t go mad. Prison for a waste of oxygen like this one should be a deeply unpleasant experience and it should be for the rest of his natural life.

A few of you are saying that you could hear response of her mum in court who broadcast that? bloody hell that is horrific the news site i watched had the decency to edit any sound out apart from the judge.

MrsJayy it was on the live feed, there was no time delay.