To question my long held beliefs against capital punishment after what happened to Alesha MacPhail

[Noteventhebirdsareupyet]

Hi all,

I have recently been really shaken by the Alesha MacPhailcase and possibly because I now have a tiny daughter of my own, I am feeling really affected by what has happened.

I have always had reasonably strong views against capital punishment and have often argued that:

No one has the right to take the life of another.

When capital punishment is lawful, mistakes are made and innocent people get killed.

We are supposedly a civilised society.

Often offenders were victims first and therefore need empathy and have been failed by the system.....

However I am now shocked to find myself thinking that if a person can do the things that Aaron Campbell has done to a tiny, innocent girl and show absolutely no remorse, then perhaps instead of spending hundreds of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money keeping him incarcerated and then putting communities at risk upon his release, maybe we as a society should say that this person is intrinsically evil and has no place among us.

I honestly never imagined myself feeling like this and maybe it is because I am now a mother that I do. Surely people like him don't deserve a second chance and should be killed before they ruin more lives.

Am I being unreasonable to feel like this? Has anyone else had a turning point like me? I feel that my family and friends would be a bit shocked to hear me say "let's kill dangerous criminals" but this incident has had a profound effect on my outlook and I feel like I can't voice my opinions out loud.

I do think Aaron Cambell will be subject to many true crime documentaries in the future though which imo isn't right what he did to Alesha will be diluted and it will be all about what led him to...

I do not believe that human life is sacred. I believe some people are beyond rehabilitation. I’m indifferent as to whether he is executed or spends the rest of his life in prison doing hard labour in isolation.

Unfortunately, neither of those are options in this country because we are soft behind a joke. He will be released and he will harm, possibly murder, again. And we will all wring our hands about how awful it is.

Oh @MrsJayy ** I hope you're not right. I don't have the words to describe him from the actual crime, to trying to implicate Alesha's stepmum to his demeanour in the trial. They should lock him up and throw away the key.

There is a distinction to be drawn between wanting capital punishment andactually thinking it’s a good idea. I definitely would like capital punishment on a purely emotive level but I know there is no rational justification for it in principle. Margret Thatcher said much the same thing once in an interview. We can’t always help what we can but we can act above our desires.

@Inliverpool1 then can you please explain how his actions are indicative of someone with fetal alcohol syndrome. What characteristics does he have that makes you think this way? His face is not typical of FAS.

I know many people with a wide range of disabilities and to hear things banded about like he must have autism/ADHD/BPD does a great disservice to those living with these conditions who are not rapists/murders/criminals.

I will believe the outcomes of those who have worked with him in the many months he has been in remand who have worked with young people in the criminal justice system and are very used to dealing with people with these genuine conditions, including FAS

bloody hell, horrible to read, where did he kidnap her from,? not read much about it,Its very telling he wanted to "lifetime experience" like lifetime murder documentary? wanted the infamy poor little girl

Another problem is that death penalty used to be used in less serious cases in the past, including horse theft! I think it could be used in very rare circumstances. Saying we simply can’t because humans are infallible? Think we are just avoiding something necessary but unpleasant

I’m personally against the death penalty, I don’t see how someone commiting a crime is a reason for someone else to do the same. I speak as someone who witnessed a man being beaten to death for being gay, but I don’t believe that gives the government the right to kill that person.

Another one here who's against capital punishment in all circumstances. For me the judicial process should never be party to taking a human life and it would be much better to use life without parole - which could well be regarded as better retribution than a quick death

The point that someone will always come along to insist they're "really a victim / have found Jesus / are suitable for release" isn't a reason to bring back the death penalty; instead, IMO, it's an argument for changing the system

I don’t think I agree with capital punishment, but I definately don’t agree with rehabilitation either!

I think a percentage of criminals certainly went that way as a result of their own abuse and I suppose in theory they could be rehabilitated but i find a lot of criminals to be very seriously manipulative individuals and that worries me if they are to be put within the community..

Aside from abuse victims though, I do think a percentage of criminals are, quite simply, not wired right and are not curable.

If the answer isn’t capital punishment I think it has to be life imprisonment or life in a mental health unit/hospital.

Not at all comfortable with putting violent offenders back in the community. Ever.

I always think there's something weird about people who dream up details of how deprived and unpleasant prisoners lives "ought" to be made.

"This criminal is a monster, I can't understand how someone could enjoy making someone else suffer. I think THEY should be made to suffer - yeah, a barren cell forever and no contact with the outside world, just bread and water and the realisation of what theyve done! I hope they want to kill themselves but aren't able to - thinking about all that suffering makes me feel better ".

Revelling in someone else's pain" because they deserve it" is quite a disturbing impulse, yet many people wear it as a badge of pride.

It's only the practical issue of potential wrongful conviction that persuade me against it.

A big part of the problem is caused when parole board years down the line get taken in.

See David McGreavy case recently reported on.

Saying we simply can’t because humans are infallible? Think we are just avoiding something necessary but unpleasant

An odd argument, because clearly the death penalty is not at all necessary. Even if you support it, it's not actually essential.

The only argument for capital punishment being necessary would be if it was a proven deterrent, and it is not.

I am anti capital punishment. I don’t think it would deter people like that. I don’t think anything would.

I do think that, after conviction and sentencing, their name and picture should no longer be published. No documentaries, no attention from those bizarre people who write to killers, no mention of them in the media. If they need to be mentioned eg they are moved to another prison or refused parole, they could be referred to as, in this case, ‘the killer of Alesha MacPhail’. Let the victim be remembered and let them be forgotten.

The sentences in justice systems are there to punish as well as deter.

It's a horrific case, and I feel deeply for Alesha's family. I can't imagine what they're going through, it hurts to even try. I have a 6 yo DD, and it's one of those 'too close to home' cases that makes you feel a visceral need to punish the perpetrator in extreme ways.

Except I cannot, now, and never will, believe that the death penalty has a place in a civilised society.

I think that's a good point katterina. The level of attention these people get, from groupies but also from fulminators and Saw fantasists, is just gross. And they're not worth it. Fuck them.

The only argument for capital punishment being necessary would be if it was a proven deterrent, and it is not

I actually don’t think it’s a deterrent. I just think some crimes are so heinous and some are so beyond help that it’s best to quietly rid ourselves of them.

What’s the point of keeping them in a cell for the rest of their natural life?

How can this vile and sadistic individual be rehabilitated, will they! Some lie to get through parole. There have been cases where criminals who have been 'rehabilitated' get let out on parole and offend again. Some crimes are just too serious to be rehabilitated, this is one of them!

What’s the point of keeping them in a cell for the rest of their natural life?

The fact that it keeps the risk of them reoffending among the general public at zero?

Also the fact that it provides proper retribution, which I'd argue is important in a balanced society?

If it prevents another little child being killed, than so be it! Prison has to be a tool of punishment.

I don’t think the utilitarian aspects of your position - why should the taxpayer pay, how can you protect people on his release, really belong in this argument.

Is state ordered killing of a murderer always morally wrong? I’m not sure that it is.

Except I cannot, now, and never will, believe that the death penalty has a place in a civilised society

I agree with you wholeheartedly.