Bf rates uk vs us

[Silkyanduna]

Just found out my American sil is expecting and she said they only get 6 weeks maternity and that’s pretty standard for the US. This made me think how much I would have struggled to breastfeed past this point if I had had to go back to work. With the uk in comparison having pretty good maternity leave AIBU to question why the Uk breastfeeding % is lower than in the US ?

I don't think I'd have minded it that much if it was all other mums but when the dads are allowed on those shared wards too then that would be horrid.

At our hospital there is even a hotel attached with a post-natal floor for those who have no complications and they can stay there in comfort as a family with a midwife clinic at the end of the hallway and a nurse on call 24/7. I was gutted that my haemorrhage meant I couldn't go there but thankfully there was a family room free on the ward.

I've read so much about horrible postnatal wards. I spent a lot of those early days topless and sobbing and having to do that on a shared ward may well have been the thing that caused me to sack off breastfeeding.

They're a disgrace! Hot, noisy, too long visiting hours (or allow men to stay overnight) and understaffed so no one controls the visitors and also expect you to leave your curtains open at all times so they can see you. Then they wonder why the BF rates are so low. Not at all fit for purpose yet even in new hospitals postnatal is still a fucking ward and not private rooms (just a few private rooms for emergencies).

Maybe it's worth looking at postnatal accomodation in other countries that have higher BF rates. Our wards just sound like a very hostile environment for postpartum women. I guess I was lucky that my baby was ill and I was given a room so that when I got her back from NICU I had the privacy to learn how to BF.

The wards were very stressful at my hospital. So many beds lined up, a baby would cry every 2 minutes every moment of the day and because you didn’t know if it was yours for a second you would continuously wake up. It was absolutely boiling on mine too, I couldn’t get my nipples to extend at all, I was just a stressed, sore, sweaty mess. Constant stream of midwives, nurses and visitors, all new faces .... it was hell. And we had to stay 5 days!

Really not a relaxed, conducive atmosphere to start breastfeeding.

I feel lucky regarding several aspects of my birth, but by far the luckiest is that my hospital had straight up run out of beds in the postnatal ward so we just stayed in the birthing room overnight until discharge the next morning. It comes to something where staying in a room spattered with your own blood, without a proper bed and with no pillow (they did find me a blanket) and with no cot for the baby (he had to sleep on the resuscitation machine thing!) doesn't seem like a big prize - but from what every woman I know says about postnatal ward at our hospital I know I definitely lucked out there.

Pumping breast milk and feeding it to babies from a bottle is a very poor substitute for breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is not just about the quality of the milk; it’s about milk going straight into the baby without going near plastics and chemicals; about babies’ mouth and breathing; about the relationship between mother and baby; and a whole host of other things.

Pumping breast milk and feeding it to babies from a bottle is a very poor substitute for breastfeeding.

I’m sure that’s very comforting and helpful for mothers who have to go back to work 6 weeks post partum.

People are doing their best in the circumstances they find them self in. Personally I think mums who pump are doing an amazing job. Pumping is a killer.

Actually - the pumping industry is a scandal. Pumping is extremely difficult for mothers and the benefits to babies are doubtful.

the pumping industry is a scandal.

Erm, wtf?

I agree with you that pumping is difficult (I hated it) but you’re not really addressing the question around what happens when mothers have to go to work or babies can’t latch for whatever reason. Should they simply use formula? Is that what you’re saying?

We have just come back from Florida. We ran out of formula. I had a look in Walmart and instead of our £10 a tub it was $35 a tub.
Surely a factor?

Yes, you might as well use formula as pump.

I do actually also think that pumping is oversold. The pregnancy boards are always full of women who are 'going to breastfeed but then pump so that DH can have the bonding too' and I wonder how many of them do - I did express a bottle a day and I look back and wonder WTF I was doing. It's sold as being 'best of both worlds' but I think it's very much worst of both in terms of effect on the mother. I agree that of course there are situations where it's the best option, but I do think it should be acknowledged that women who are exclusively pumping are doing something much more difficult than most women find breastfeeding - I get the impression that people almost think it's easier.

Pumping and then bottle feeding pumped milk is a highly alienating and dehumanizing process. While pumping can have its uses (for example when a breastfeeding mother has to spend some time away from her baby for exceptional reasons), it really shouldn’t be normalized.

The other thing that bothered me seeing these US women post was that it's actually very hard to feed a young baby on expressed milk in any sort of on demand way, because you have a set supply for the day and if the baby doesn't finish a bottle it's gone - they can't have it later. There was a lot of women having to leave work to feed a baby who had run out of milk, and anger that the daycare hadn't distracted the baby or forced them to finish an earlier bottle to stop this happening. I did think that some of them would have been better off being open to formula than letting a four month old wait two hours for a feed until their mother got there because they'd been hungrier than anticipated that day.

The pregnancy boards are always full of women who are 'going to breastfeed but then pump so that DH can have the bonding too' and I wonder how many of them do

I think this is just lack of understanding prior to doing it. I thought something similar, not realising how difficult pumping is.

However, if bfing gets well established, I can imagine the rigorous pumping schedule going by the wayside because why would you if you’re there to bf directly?

But I think it’s a good option for some women/babies and fair play if you have the stamina to do it.

I breastfed both of mine to begin with and then had to exclusively pump for one of them, (ds), from about 4mo, due misdiagnosed tt and then total breast refusal. So I did quite a bit of research on this whole pumping vs bf vs ff issue.

I think tbh, the differences between each are probably marginal.

I read an article which said it should be seen as;

Formula = good
Donated milk = better
Expressed BM from the mother of the baby = better still
BF = best

I would agree with that. Obviously, everyone would probably pick to do the “best” option, but there are many reasons why they can’t / don’t want to.

There are things in breast milk that cannot be recreated in formula. So I do think there’s a difference, albeit not a hugely significant one, between feeding BM and ff.

I also think I saved money by pumping. I hated making bottles of formula with powder, and breast milk comes ready made, obviously. Plus it keeps for ages in the fridge and even out of the fridge, unlike open bottles of ready made formula.

So, for me, no, I may not as well have switched to formula immediately.

I’ve also topped up both of my dcs in the past with formula btw and ds switched totally to formula at 11 mo, so I know of course that formula is not poison or anything. I’m totally for it, if it’s the best option for the family.

it really shouldn’t be normalised

It’s only normalised in certain cultures where the mothers rights to long maternity leaves don’t exist. Pumping and it’s ‘normalisation’ is not the problem, it’s an inevitable consequence of a much bigger issue.

Or you could argue that the creation of an active pumping industry and normalised pumping culture serves as a disincentive to work harder for maternity rights.

I think this is just lack of understanding prior to doing it. I thought something similar, not realising how difficult pumping is.

But I think that's because pumping is oversold - and I think that's negative for women. I've seen lots of posts about not wanting to leave a breastfed child on here met with 'can't you just pump a bottle?' and I think it's an unfair expectation that helps to minimise the challenges of breastfeeding and so the extra support that breastfeeding women (whether feeding directly or expressing) need.

The problem is, I think there are two contradictory desires here. No one wants to put women off breastfeeding so it's difficulty is downplayed, but then that makes it hard to fully support women, and also to encourage a wider societal support for them. When I posted on a thread once saying I found it hard to do all the housework with a small baby (in support of a poster who was being criticised for not doing that) I got accused of 'pulling the breastfeeding card' when I pointed out I spent around four hours of my day feeding. Similarly with sleep - breastfeeding mothers do on average have more sleep problems, and just saying this isn't true and 'just cosleep' doesn't really help.

Or you could argue that the creation of an active pumping industry and normalised pumping culture serves as a disincentive to work harder for maternity rights.

Ooooooh deep! You could be on to something there.

But I’m quite glad the industry existed when I needed it. And I’m a sahm, so maternity leave didn’t come into it.

As I said above though, a few pages ago, I think working and pumping for me would have been a lot easier than being at home with the baby and older dc trying to pump umpteen times a day. Having breastfed too, I think going back to work early and pumping would have been easier for me personally than being at home breastfeeding. But then, my babies all fed little and often. If I’d had one of those amazing babies who feed then sleep for three or four hours, maybe working would be harder than that...

Or you could argue that the creation of an active pumping industry and normalised pumping culture serves as a disincentive to work harder for maternity rights.

Well you could. But you’d have to acknowledge that delivering better maternity rights will take significant time regardless of incentive and why shouldn’t babies get breast milk in the meantime?

Also I think pumping ‘industry’ is overstating it significantly. Who’s making money out of pumping (aside from pump manufacturers?) and a significant percentage of those who bf normally would be buying pumps anyway.

When I was pregnant I definitely saw pumping as an ideal solution to the downsides of bf (not getting a break/being able to leave your baby). But when he was born I wasn’t able to get ANY milk from the pump. It was disappointing! If I’d been in the US/back to work sooner I’d have had to ff.

It surprises me when people rush to say that formula is just as good as breastmilk without seemingly considering the huge and powerful commercial interests behind formula and the large sums of money spent by the companies (in many cases sponsoring “studies”) to make you believe that is the case. Meanwhile, the NHS, whose only interest is the health of the population, says that bf is the ideal way to feed your baby.

Of course if you can’t/don’t want to that is your choice and should be respected. People should be supported to feed how they want without denying facts.

@harriettm87

It surprises me when people rush to say that formula is just as good as breastmilk.

Yeah formula may be perfectly OK, but no way is it better than the mother's natural milk (assuming she has not been taking drugs or drinking lots of alcohol!)

But I think that's because pumping is oversold - and I think that's negative for women.

I think all the very valid points you make in your post come down to inadequate understanding and education around bfing generally. Not ‘overselling’ pumping.

In the UK who would even be doing this overselling? I don’t recall pumping ever being mentioned by NHS/NCT and certainly not on the hard sell. When it’s discussed on forums, those with experience of it are clear about how tough it is.

UK resident here...

I only got TWELVE WEEKS maternity leave with BOTH of mine in the mid 1990s. I finished work at 8 and a half months pregnant, and went back when they were 10 weeks old. Both times.

Breastfeeding was very difficult once I got back to work, and I had to express the milk for when I was at work (and the childminder was looking after them!)

When I started breastfeeding them, I got NO help or support, and was made to feel it was my fault when they weren't 'latching,' and it took several weeks of stress and toil and cracked nipples and NO SLEEP before they took to the breast... Women/new mothers these days don't know they're born, with the maternity leave and help and support they get...

Bitter... Moi?!