Bf rates uk vs us

[Silkyanduna]

Just found out my American sil is expecting and she said they only get 6 weeks maternity and that’s pretty standard for the US. This made me think how much I would have struggled to breastfeed past this point if I had had to go back to work. With the uk in comparison having pretty good maternity leave AIBU to question why the Uk breastfeeding % is lower than in the US ?

I've asked people before why they think the NHS is running a massive conspiracy to pressure women into BFing when it has no benefits and I've never really got a coherent answer. People go on about 'but the WHO stuff is really about developing countries' and 'the better studies show it makes no difference', as if they somehow have insight or information that's completely absent in the whole NHS (a lot of people on the internet seem to think that they understand confounding variables but the leading NHS paediatricians are too dim to). Since the NHS does pay for some breastfeeding support services (maybe not enough, but some) and formula feeding is given no support at all, it would considerably in the NHS's interest to ditch breastfeeding promotion if the evidence really did show that it's pointless.

Harriet

I found while I was breastfeeding and topping up with ebm, I couldn’t get all that much from a pump, especially on the side where ds had a just had a decent-ish feed, but when ds decides to completely refused the breast at 4mo, I had no choice but to pump or get hideous mastitis, (had that already thanks with dd. Horrible), I suddenly found I could get heaps from the pump. I think breasts somehow know... . They are so wise.

I would never recommend pumping unless you had to though. I think it’s a good second best when you don’t really have a choice to keep bfing and don’t especially want to use formula.

Who’s making money out of pumping (aside from pump manufacturers?

The benefits of the pumping industry accrue to a patriarchal society that denies women maternity benefits. It’s a hugely valuable industry for employers and taxpayers!

The us rates were much higher even when I lived there, but there's a right to a fridge at work and formula is crazy expensive, it's not covered by insurance of course. I didn't meet many people who formula fed under 6 months though I suspect they didn't mix in the same circles as I went to sahm groups. I knew people still breastfeeding at 2 and mixed feeding was common past 6 months too. If you are low income and breastfeed you get special food vouchers for the first year in fact (then through wic).

I know this doesn't link directly to breastfeeding, but considering there is some discussion of maternity leave too; is the low maternity leave allowances contributing to the high ELC rates? Particularly relevant is the poster who mentioned that if you are in California you get two extra weeks of paid maternity leave.

I think it's can also be the case that if you have a c-section it can be slightly more difficult to establish breastfeeding. Does it all link together?

NewAccount270219

I agree. Throw in the fact that many nhs trusts break the WHO code and receive sponsorships from formula companies in one way or another (staff training days etc) then it’s even more astounding that they still try to promote breastfeeding as better if there’s no evidence for it 🤷‍♀️

I pumped for six months with my first baby after we had a truly awful birth and she was so injured she couldn't open her mouth to latch properly to begin with. It was easier for her to drink from a bottle plus my milk was several delayed (about day 12 I think) due to my blood loss so she had formula for the first week or so after a few days of screaming from hunger.

I pumped for my second baby for three months after an ELCS. She breastfed fine for the first few days, and after that I just could not get her on. So I pumped, thinking it was better for her to have my milk than formula.

I've nothing against formula, baby 1 was exclusively FF from 6m and baby 2 from 3m. Everyone I know who has exclusively FF has perfectly healthy, well nourished children. But no one should minimise how hard pumping is. I doubt anyone does it out of choice, if it works it's far easier to breastfeed and it's also far easier to FF. Pumping is double the work, and even harder when you also have a toddler to entertain.

I think mums who 'choose' to pump should be applauded for trying to do their best for their baby not be put down as giving them a 'poor substitute'

It always surprises me how some women are so over invested in how another woman chooses to feed their child.

I couldn't express at all with my first but could with my second (breastfed them both successfully though) but no way could I have done it full time. I just did it once a day, while he had his first nap, so that I could go out for a few hours sans baby and not worry about him getting hungry but after a few months he refused my expressed milk (but would drink formula just fine - weird baby!)

Yup exclusive pumping is double the work - all the faff of bottles plus the annoyance of pumping, having to be careful about what medication you use, your diet if baby has allergies. Anyone that manages that is impressive to me.

@Natsku I was fortunate. Though collectively me and both of my children were rubbish at breastfeeding both times, although the time constraints were difficult, I pumped lots of milk with ease. With a double electric pump I could get 12oz off in 20 minutes.

I know a few women who breastfed successfully but couldn't pump more than an oz or two. I also know friends who tried to exclusively pump and were the same, so FF. I think it's just luck of the draw.

breastfeeding is seen as a hassle and bottles easier

I found the complete opposite.

Ds I had to FF from 6 weeks but Dd I bf for 3 years.

I ran my own business and was on site a lot or at a computer and with no bottles or formula or warming, mixing etc to worry about it was so much easier to bf in comparison

motheroftinydragons I felt proud if I could get 6 or 7oz with my double electric pump!

My friend could get loads with her pump, was an overproducer but her baby wouldn't latch so she exclusively pumped but then she got a cold and took sudafed for a couple of days and her supply dropped to pretty much nothing and she had to stop.

Obviously if mothers really want to pump and feed expressed breast milk to their babies, they should feel free to do so. But isn’t any kind of ideal and doesn’t provide all the health benefits of breastfeeding, while creating a lot of additional logistics.

What health benefits of breastfeeding doesn't it provide exactly? The milk doesn't change because it's sucked out by a pump rather than a mouth!

Please don't say 'bonding' either. I bonded way better with my children when they were fed and happy rather than screaming with hunger and rage trying to get them fed directly from the breast!

The milk is contaminated through contact with pump and bottles.
The natural facial/mouth/breathing development of babies is enhanced by breastfeeding and damaged by bottle feeding.

The milk is contaminated through contact with pump and bottles

Contaminated in what sense?

Of course it's not contaminated it goes through a sterile pump into a sterile bottle! I've heard it all now! Contaminated what what exactly?

If you don't wash it maybe...

I think maybe OP is because a lot of people simply don't want to. I hated the idea of BF and never even considered doing it. Like many other things in a modern civilized society I had choices and options and wanted to exercise them. I think if you really want to BF you will give it ago in spite of maternity leave etc. But many people just don't want to.

There are more extremely poor mothers in the US who I suspect need to save money by not buying formula.

And there's nothing wrong with that @Debfronut. Its 2019. Women have choices and it's about time we stopped chastising them for using them.

There's no group of society as judgy as mums, in my experience. How you birth, feed, get your child to sleep, wean, potty train... the list goes on. All up for comment and judgement these days.

Sometimes I think things must have been easier for mums of my mothers generation who had no internet. Much more trusting of your own instincts and no-one online telling you their way is the better way.

I am wrong. This is a good article on breastfeeding in the US.

qz.com/1034016/the-class-dynamics-of-breastfeeding-in-the-united-states-of-america/

The 1950's NHS is to blame.

In the 50's and 60's, formula was seen as more modern and scientific so midwifes and HV would encourage it. This never happened in the US.

People tend to copy their own parents. This is continuing.

The current 'traditional' way of bringing up a baby in the UK- formula feeding, using a buggy, lots of bedding and cot bumpers, baby rice and purée etc, isn't actually traditional at all. It's all post-war, from well intentioned advice given out by the emerging NHS.

Breastfeeding, using a sling, finger food and generally being more responsive, physically affectionate and more hands-on, is probably more like how our great grandmothers did it.

speaking from personal experience/experience of women at work.. there just isn't the practical support

• long working hours
• long/stressful commutes
• nowhere private to pump (i think there might be a legal right to get somewhere private but try arranging that at a small employer in, say, the construction industry where already the women are in a minority and see as adding expense when they need their own loo facilities or ask about the lack of a sanpro bin!!)
• nowhere to store milk in a cool place/fridge (if you can't even get a private space to pump because of the potential pushback/being seen as a squeaky wheel, do i even need to bother explain what the reaction would be if anyone returning from mat leave asked for their own special fridge?!)
• working across multi sites, meaning if you end up 1 day on a site with a private place or room in a fridge... the next day you'll be off somewhere else and lucky to have a decent loo, never mind those extras

it's just not possible in the working environment i'm used to, literally speaking - employers just aren't set up to support a breastfeeding mother returning to work, practically or culturally!

it's very hard and then they wonder why they have droves of qualified young women hitting their late 20s, early 30s and then leaving the profession they've studied years to get into... because it's fundamentally incompatible with raising a family in more ways than one...

Clairemcnam, that article reflects my experience in the US. When I had babies, the people I mixed with/used daycare with were mostly highly educated, fairly "crunchy-granola" kind of people and every one of the mothers breastfed. I did too and tbh I think I would have felt judged if I didn't. Most of the women at work with me (professional jobs) took about 12 weeks off and then returned to work, feeding in the morning and evenings/night and maybe pumping once during the day. My office provided a privacy room for pumping more than 20 years ago. Most women I knew at the time breastfed to some extent for a year or longer - they were all aiming for a full year. Anecdotally, friends I made who had a high-school education and no university didn't breastfeed - there wasn't the same expectation of doing so I think.

I got huge support for breastfeeding after birth in US hospitals. There was a breastfeeding support group that met every day so even if you were just in overnight, you could attend in the morning. First baby wouldn't latch on (someone gave him a bottle first night while I was very very ill - paediatrician was really angry about that) and the nurses spent hours with me trying - and succeeding - in getting him to latch. Second baby killed my nipples and a breasfeeding consultant saw me before I was discharged, sent me home with a free pump (easier on my nipples for a couple of days) and followed up with me afterwards to make sure I was establishing breastfeeding properly.