In thinking a payslip is normal?

[caffeineplease]

Gave in bank details and NI number and was told monthly pay on 15th every month. Simple.
1st month payment seems higher than expected, stupid me does not mention it.
2nd month I scrupulously count every minute I work and yet again the payment was higher than expected.
I've just asked if they are paying me more than originally stated . But oh no it seems they are paying me cash in hand and I'm now liable for my tax etc
As I'm not staying long ( other posts) I need to clear this up so asked for a payslip... apparently they don't do those either!
Someone please tell me this isn't normal!

I would have thought you would have to pay any tax owed after the end of this tax year when you do your self assessment and work out how much you owe.

also I'm a little concerned that I'm doing something illegal

You're not doing anything illegal. They may be.

They didn't know I hadn't had paid work for last six months, had done volunteer work as recently recovered from a stress related breakdown.

Presumably you gave them a P45 or completed a starter checklist?

They cant give you payslips if your not actually working for them, contract work usually needs you to invoice them though or submit a lists of hours.

but same they cant give you a contract of employment if your not working for them. As a freelancer id have thought it the norm you supply the contract.

but that's based on more normal freelancers I've worked with, bookkeepers, marketing etc

Its really weird about how both of you have a very different understanding of what you are doing, they say you are self employed so they' re paying you for this, you expected to be an employee, but then you didn't expect to stay long and maybe that was their expectation too not worth putting you both through all the paperwork when you'd be gone in a couple of months but that should have been made clear to you.

Tax wise you can do your assessment and pay it so no immediate panic but do you have other income?

I would have thought you would have to pay any tax owed after the end of this tax year when you do your self assessment and work out how much you owe.

A normal PAYE employee without any complications doesn't have to do SA.

If the OP hasn't worked for most of the year and has just started in this job, she has an annual allowance before deductions for tax (NI may be being deducted, we don't know). so it could be right. Either way she is entitled to payslips that explain this.

@Toooldtocareanymore
It was definitely not freelance and they are assuming I'm staying long term

They cant give you payslips if your not actually working for them, contract work usually needs you to invoice them though or submit a lists of hours.

There are very limited occasions where a retail worker wouldn't be subject to PAYE and in every case they'd know about it because it would hang on the details of their agreed contract.

I know they haven’t exactly said you’re self employed. But it sounds like this is what they’re inferring by not saying expecting you to be too dumb or scared to query it. Good on you for spotting it and good luck with hmrc!

Lots of terrible advice on here.

Would I need to pay it back immediately on the phone to them

No. If you haven't worked in six months, it's unlikely that you owe much or any tax for this tax year, unless you earnt a decent salary earlier in the tax year. But you will need to pay NI, which you don't know if you have without a payslip, but in any case, any underpaid tax will be deducted in future, as you go along, via the PAYE system, or it would if your employer was doing things correctly.

The only way you could be legally self employed in retail would be if you ran some sort of independant consession stand within a shop or other premises, ie you sold a product or service and brought the goods in or supplied yourself and they money you took was yours and there was exchange of 'rent' or a fee paid for you to be operating in the shop, but you were running a separate business to the shop that you were in.

I am baffled some people are still saying you’re self employed not an employee. You don’t meet the criteria.

Did you see the job advertised? Do you still have access to the ad?

I'm an employer. We are legally obliged to issue a contract to all employees whether they know their job or not!

As you haven't worked for 6 months you, probably, wouldn't have tax to pay but, on the amounts indicated, NI would be paid by you and your employer.

Auto-enrolment depends on a lot of factors so this is just a distraction at this stage but it would be worth you looking at the government website so you know if you are entitled to it. Don't be bullied into "opting out", when you retire you will be grateful for it.

Contracts must be issued within 13 weeks of starting.

This thread is rife with terrible advice, there's some good advice too - but OP you are in a messy situation and need a professional to tell you what's what.

Speak to HMRC. It doesn't seem like you've done anything wrong (apart from being naive) but they'll be able to tell you.

Someone correct me If I'm wrong but you can't just declare yourself as self employed without registering with HMRC and not having a UTR number so please stop telling OP it's fine it's because she's self employed.

OP the owner and his wife sound like they have no idea and probably negligent in other areas! I also would advise you to ring HMRC.

I had this with an employer when I finished uni. After a couple of months of no contract or payslips and seemingly being paid more than initially stated, I queried it. Employer told me their accountant would check and I'd start getting payslips.

The payments went down slightly, but still no payslips. It wasn't until I left a few months later and started a new job, I realised they had just paid me less without actually paying any tax or national insurance. Since they had disposed of my previous job p45 I ended up having to do a self certificate and paying a NI And tax bill. I received quite a bit of it back eventually as I was only (unknowingly) self employed for 6 months.

HMRC were really helpful and withheld the fine for not declaring as self employed, as they were satisfied the employer had lied to me about my employment status. I think I just had to send a copy of my job offer and bank statements showing payments received, along with copies of emails querying my pay and tax.

The liability for unpaid tax and NI remains with the employer unless they can prove genuine self-employment. Without the agreement of the worker that he was self-employed, and in the absence of any contract, they'd need to prove that the actual nature of the relationship wasn't that of employee/employer. There are ways of proving that but it would have to be a truly exceptional case to be able to prove self-employment without a contract and with a worker who clearly thought he was an employee - to the extent that he'd handed over his P45 and was chasing up his pay-slips.

They didn't know I hadn't had paid work for last six months, had done volunteer work as recently recovered from a stress related breakdown.

I think someone has already said this but it is their job to know. You have to have either given them a P45 or completed a New Starter Checklist which asks these whether you have had other employment in the last tax year or not (since last April)

Please ignore the terrible advice of howmanyusernames. It doesn't matter what industry you are in, you can be classed as self-employed. This is wrong. Its not about the industry per se, its about the job. There are clear guidelines as to what can and cannot be classed as self-employed and its all about whether you can choose your hours, send someone else in your place, pick and choose when to work and whether you quote for jobs regardless of the time taken to complete them.

howmanyusernames you are completely and utterly wrong!

Howmanyusernames is very confused.

Obviously it's possible to be a freelance retail worker. Someone who works for themselves, who provides cover when small retailers want to go on holiday, perhaps. Or a "troubleshooter" consultant who goes into struggling shops to tell them where they are going wrong.

But that is not what is happening here. The OP has one place of work. She doesn't pick her hours. She doesn't negotiate her rate. She has been told she's "on the payroll". She doesn't send invoices for the work she's done. She can't decide that she just doesn't fancy working that week. She doesn't have the freedom to work when it's convenient to her.

There isn't the freedom to decide whether you're self-employed or not. There are criteria laid down by the tax office. Meet the criteria, you're self-employed. If you don't meet the criteria, you're a worker. Or an employee. It's that simple.

From what OP has said, she is an employee. She is also an employee with a shit/clueless employer who is probably fiddling the tax.

We're you with the job centre before? You could ask them if this is standard practice in some business and what you have to do?
I'd call HMRC for advice straight away. And apply for other jobs !!

The good thing is that if you dont meet HMRC eligibilty rules covery self employed , you arent responsible for your tax and N.I the company is , they are also responsible for enrolling you into a pension scheme, the fines for failing this are pretty high

Obviously it's possible to be a freelance retail worker. Someone who works for themselves, who provides cover when small retailers want to go on holiday, perhaps. Or a "troubleshooter" consultant who goes into struggling shops to tell them where they are going wrong

to the poster who wrote this , No No No , there are strict rules on who can be self employed . Consultancy workers will be employed by by their own ltd company to get over the rules , and the employer employess the company not the worker