In thinking a payslip is normal?

[caffeineplease]

Gave in bank details and NI number and was told monthly pay on 15th every month. Simple.
1st month payment seems higher than expected, stupid me does not mention it.
2nd month I scrupulously count every minute I work and yet again the payment was higher than expected.
I've just asked if they are paying me more than originally stated . But oh no it seems they are paying me cash in hand and I'm now liable for my tax etc
As I'm not staying long ( other posts) I need to clear this up so asked for a payslip... apparently they don't do those either!
Someone please tell me this isn't normal!

Do you earn more than £503 per month?

Its OK, it wuld be the employer they would go after. The employer is the one resposnible for deducting tax and NI so HMRC would go after them for the back tax.

From Gov website.

Working out employment status for an employee
Someone who works for a business is probably an employee if most of the following are true:

they’re required to work regularly unless they’re on leave, for example holiday, sick leave or maternity leave
they’re required to do a minimum number of hours and expect to be paid for time worked
a manager or supervisor is responsible for their workload, saying when a piece of work should be finished and how it should be done
they can’t send someone else to do their work
the business deducts tax and National Insurance contributions from their wages
they get paid holiday
they’re entitled to contractual or Statutory Sick Pay, and maternity or paternity pay
they can join the business’s pension scheme
the business’s disciplinary and grievance procedures apply to them
they work at the business’s premises or at an address specified by the business
their contract sets out redundancy procedures
the business provides the materials, tools and equipment for their work
they only work for the business or if they do have another job, it’s completely different from their work for the business
their contract, statement of terms and conditions or offer letter (which can be described as an ‘employment contract’) uses terms like ‘employer’ and ‘employee’
If most of these don’t apply, you should work out if the person is self-employed.

Checking if they’re exempt from PAYE
Someone is probably self-employed and shouldn’t be paid through PAYE if most of the following are true:

they’re in business for themselves, are responsible for the success or failure of their business and can make a loss or a profit
they can decide what work they do and when, where or how to do it
they can hire someone else to do the work
they’re responsible for fixing any unsatisfactory work in their own time
their employer agrees a fixed price for their work - it doesn’t depend on how long the job takes to finish
they use their own money to buy business assets, cover running costs, and provide tools and equipment for their work
they can work for more than one client

Follow the advice on the link, it says how important it is not to investigate it yourself or tell them you've reported.

Contact the fraud line, it's much better for you that they've paid into your bank as you can prove how much you've received, rather than actual 'cash' in hand where they could say they didn't pay you yet or something.

@Comefromaway
Yes more than double that

@WeeDangerousSpike
Thank you. Would I need to pay it back immediately on the phone to them ?
It's my first job in over 6 months

No, your employer would need to pay it back to them.

There is something called RTI (Real Time Information) so HMRC can check instantly whether an employer has deducted and paid tax and NI

It's not normal in retail, no, but there isn't anything wrong with what they are doing either.

Yes, apart from it being totally illegal it's fine.

@Comefromaway
I thought that as they have paid me too much per hour , I would be liable for my stupidity not my employer?

Take a deep breath. Phone HMRC - a pp has listed a link above. You won't get into trouble, it's not your fault. But do work out roughly how much tax and NI you should pay and keep that to one side, just in case. (I actually don't think you'll even have to pay that back, it's the employer, but it will help your peace of mind knowing you have the cash available)

Would I need to pay it back immediately on the phone to them?

No, and don't offer. You've done nothing wrong, it's up to your employer to make the relevant deductions, not for you to check they've done it.

Having said that, if it comes to light while you're still working there you may find the employer will recover it from your future payments.

Okay, I suspect what's actually happening here is that you aren't paying any tax because it's the end of the tax year and you haven't earned enough.

Tax will start to be deducted from next month.

It sounds like you might have someone processing payroll who doesn't really know what they're doing (horrifically common) and therefore has said you're being paid 'gross' when what they mean is you don't need to pay tax at the moment because you didn't earn enough in the year.

Ask for a payslip and contract - they're a legal requirement for an employee which you almost certainly are.

Who actually does the payroll? Do they outsource it? If they do ask for the number and give them a call.

Yes you should have a payslip by law & yes you should have a written statement of the terms of your employment.

Your employer would have to pay Employer's NI contributions if they were putting it all through the books so that's probably one reason why they're avoiding it. They cannot do this - follow the advice on the link posted up thread.

They haven't paid you too much though, they've neglected to account for your tax and NI. Honestly, I know no-one looks forward to phoning HMRC but they will tell you exactly what you need to do to stay on the right side of the law, honestly.

I'd also start looking for another job, unfortunately, because I think a big fine is coming your employer's way...

Don't call HMRC yet - you need to ascertain what exactly is going on first - talk to the payroll person.

If they're very small it is almost certainly some accountant/bookkeeper friend helping them out who hasn't got round to payslips etc.

That's not your problem obviously but it might all be fine - you just need to get the facts before you go calling HMRC and muddying the waters further.

Okay, I suspect what's actually happening here is that you aren't paying any tax because it's the end of the tax year and you haven't earned enough.

That had just occurred to me as well, it should have been my first thought.

Are they paying you cash in hand or putting the money into your account?

If you haven't worked for 6 months and were previously in a PAYE position then you've got 6 months of tax free allowances which is approx 6,000 you could earn before tax is deducted. NI is different though, that should be deducted.

@Merryoldgoat
The owner and his wife do the "payroll " I've just asked them for a contact but apparently they don't think they need to give one as I know my role, responsibility and hourly rate

That may well be the case with tax if the OP hasn't had any other job so far this tax year. But NI isn't cumulative so the employer shouldbe deducting that. And she is entitled to a payslip.

But NI isn't cumulative so the employer should be deducting that

We don't know they're not - she hasn't had a payslip.

OK so it seems as though they are paying you a gross amount and are expecting you to pay your own tax and NI. It's not normal in retail, no, but there isn't anything wrong with what they are doing either.

Nonsense - an employer has the legal obligation to put employees through payroll, pay their national insurance and deduct tax or employee's national insurance too. they can't just pay gross and make you sort it out.

Unless the OP is self-employed, and nothing she's said indicates that she is.

Print out these items:

www.gov.uk/payslips

www.gov.uk/contract-types-and-employer-responsibilities/fulltime-and-parttime-contracts

There are a few possibilities:

1. You are working for hapless people who are muddling along and don't really understand their requirements but will ultimately be happy to meet their obligations.

1. You are working for unscrupulous people who are trying to shirk their responsibilities and are breaking the law.

1. You are working for lazy people who know what they need to provide but can't be bothered and will be annoyed with you for pushing them.

Essentially if it's not 1. then I'd be looking for a new job ASAP.

I agree that you could call HMRC to ask if your employer has added you to their RTI file.

What do they say when you ask for payslips?

They didn't know I hadn't had paid work for last six months, had done volunteer work as recently recovered from a stress related breakdown.
I naively had trusted that they were just slow in getting control, payslip etc but in a conversation just now they have said I don't need one as apparently I know the job and can do it easily.
I have a long list of issues here and shall be leaving v soon but am concerned that they are going to treat someone else like this , also I'm a little concerned that I'm doing something illegal.
Money is tight as I'm squirrelling away enough to leave my DH . A large bill or fine would set me back mentally as well as financially.