To think this supposed affair isn't one and needs no attention from HR

[TakenForSlanted]

Bone of contention between a colleague (A) and myself, concerning two other colleagues (B and C):

B is a married male senior executive. C is a single female junior executive and A's subordinate. For context: we're talking about senior professionals in their 30s and 40s here, not about helpless graduates.

This much is uncontroversial: It's evident that B and C like each other on a personal level. It's the kind of going on breaks, laughing and joking together that people just do when they get along.

Colleague A, however, thinks that there's more to it than that and that B and C are involved in a fully blown affair. Her evidence, supposedly:

• B often touching C's arm as they speak
• B and C standing very close to one another in a nearly empty lift and brushing up against one another despite there being no need to
• B supposedly leaning in over C's shoulder as they discuss an item on her desk and their faces, according to A, being "literally about 5 inches away from each other"
• B and C teasing each other constantly (this much is actually true - they definitely do this. But then it's something I do with some of my friends, too).
• C calling B "adorable" in A's presence and B calling C "hot as shit" [in a context that, IMO, is more likely to be about her as a professional than about her looks].

Colleague A thinks this is clearly inappropriate and that it's obvious B and C are having an affair. A also believes the right thing to do would be to say as much to HR. With B being C's boss, an affair would clearly not be in line with policy.

I think A's being utterly ridiculous and that they may just be colleagues who get along on a personal level. I also happen to think that - even if A were spot on (and I don't think she is) it'd be none of her business.

Personal declaration of bias: C is someone I used to line manage and in whose integrity I trust. A is someone I currently line manage and who's "reported" the B and C situation to me semi-formally and has since followed up with me about me ignoring it. I frankly like C more than A both in a personal and in a professional capacity, but I also happen to think that not taking this further co-incides with my best professional judgment of what I ought to do.

So who IBU here? Me for not reporting or A for insisting to make these people her business?

In your OP you say A has reported this to you twice now. You need to do something about it, you come across as having favourites which is awful in work as a manager! Seek HR advice!

Indulging sneaks is far worse behaviour in a manager than ignoring malicious gossip. FWIW companies that try to forbid staff from having sex with each other or making friends are always onto a loser. People will like some of their colleagues more than others. Disciplinary action should only be considered when someone is clearly getting or giving unfair advantages because of who they are on good terms with.
It sounds like A is such a cunt that the only reason she is kept on is her specific skills. She should be thankful for that rather than trying to cause more trouble for other people.

It sounds like you are jealous?
If it is not affecting your work in any way why report it?

It's not me wanting to report. Having said that, the jealousy angle is interesting. I'll have to consider that.

As for the general situation, I'm pretty much on the same page as ReanimatedSGB on this one. I know I shouldn't take such a harsh view, being A's line manager. But in a personal capacity I honestly find A's complaining to be petty shit stirring. It's got no bearing on her career prospects (not her department) whether B and C like one another. Or are, in fact, baging each other (which I still don't have any reason to believe they actually are). Not to mention that we don't have any fraternisation policy in place that would prohibit a manager and a subordinate from being good friends. Thank goodness we don't - our business depends on personal relationships. (And, yes, we do obviously have a policy stating that bosses can't date their subordinates without letting the firm know - that's standard practice and basically means "we're not interested in sexual harassment suits" - but, again, I have no credible reason to believe that's the case).

Tired and exhausted here. I've had the duration of a flight to mull this one over. I don't think I'll take this further. I WILL tell A it's actual evidence or a warning for shit stirring.

So everyone has given you advice and you ignore it

You sound awfully unprofessional

OP you cannot give her a warning because it’s clear you don’t like her you are being unprofessional. You know you shouldn’t take such a harsh view and you are letting your dislike cloud your decision

Say you do warn her and it comes to light they are having an affair which frankly has to be 50/50 or she goes to HR herself

And this thread is a 50/50 split on whether the behaviour is appropriate affair ir not in the workplace because it can make people uncomfortable means that coming down on A is not the right call

Well, I can also hardly go ahead and report "my employee (the one with the numerous previous reports) feels B and C, who have nothing to do with her (and one of whom she's arguably never had any acrual dealings with) may be having an affair and that, in my role as the lead of a different area, I should somehow take ownership of making sure something or other is done about the situation which, as far as I can tell, isn't even a situation to begin with. Employee genuinely feels it's wrong - whatever 'it' may be".

No idea how I'm meant to pull this one off without making an utter tit out of myself. There is, luckily, literally no policy against getting along with your boss.

You say to hr. I’ve had reports made by a colleague of a suspected affair - I’m not sure how to handle it - what would suggest?

Then you say to a you’ve spoken with hr about it and she doesn’t need to take the matter any further as it’s in their hands now

OP you are currently holding the smoking gun. If suddenly someone decides there is a dead body you will be the fall guy.

This whole thing could play out as one of the following:

A complains about you not listening to her concerns as a whistleblower and taking performance action against her- you are in trouble

B and C fall out and C calls it sexual harassment. A then outs the fact you know B was behaving inappropriately- you are in trouble

B aides C's career and it becomes an internal scandal. A outs the fact you knew about it- you are in trouble

B&C complain about gossip and A outs you as being part of it and guess what you are in trouble.

You just need to avoid this by reporting the issue to the department who can sort it out. So go to HR, explain the facts, ask what advice you should give A and then give it. Let HR ruminate over the curious case of B&C. That way you have done your job. If A was trying to get you to be a flying monkey then she has failed but you are not left with the monkey.

You simply ask HR for advice. Not knowing what to do won’t make you a tit. Asking advice from those with expertise also won’t make you a tit.

Acting without advice based on a preexisting prejudice against your subordinate because you don’t like her that will make you a tit

So you are going to accuse her of stirring despite not investigating her allegations at all? Good luck with that one OP!

FFS the OP has stated more than once that A has form for whining, gossip and troublemaking. There are people like this and they need shutting down, not indulging.
The trouble with the modern view that everyone should feel 'safe' and 'comfortable' in the workplace is that it is a fucking gift to lazy, self-obsessed, spiteful wankers. People who want to make trouble for someone who is either their rival for promotion or who they dislike for some other reason can raise all sorts of utterly spurious complaints, which all have to be investigated at the cost of other people's time; if the whiners are shit at their jobs they are usually well-versed in turning even the gentlest of reprimands into 'bulllying'.

OP your best bet in terms of arse-covering here might be to tip HR a wink that A is stirring yet again.

And yes, I have spent quite a lot of the past couple of days sitting in investigative meetings regarding a pair of thick spiteful cunts who can't keep their ridiculous squabbles out of the workplace. (I am a note-taker who deals with school admin and some HR stuff). The amount of other people's time and the relevant organisation's money being wasted is highly aggravating and it's a pity their manager can't just tell them to grow the fuck up or get their heads banged together.

I get you don’t think there’s anything it and even if there is, so what right? Well, no, not so what. One hard lesson I’ve learned is that if something, no matter how trivial or petty or spiteful, is brought to my attention by a coworker about other coworkers I have to do something and document that I’ve done something. LemonTT is absolutely right, this could all backfire spectacularly on you if you don’t. Yes, A might be all you say but it’s not your call to make.

In this case I’d definitely pass it up the line to HR. I’d tell them that A has concerns about B and C’s relationship and has expressed some discomfort with the situation. You can say you haven’t noticed anything untoward beyond a markedly friendly rapport between the two but you felt you should alert HR just in case to an issue re potential workplace gossip and rumor mongering. HR will then be the ones who will have to make the call as to whether to investigate further and what, if anything, to do about it.

I am a bit surprised that you have now said your company does have a clear stand on office affairs boss with subordinate - they don’t approve of them due to the sexual harassment risk... and you are still saying you want to wait for what you consider to be a clear sign. Are you seriously expecting with a rule like this that if these two people are having an affair they are going to give you a clear sign they are? You are delusional.

"So everyone has given you advice and you ignore it

You sound awfully unprofessional" totally agree.

You need to speak to hr if only to cover your own arse.

If A complains again and you don't act and they go to hr and say they've raised it with you THREE times and you've said NOTHING to them that's not going to inspire confidence in you as a line manager, could even make you look like you're covering.

"Acting without advice based on a preexisting prejudice against your subordinate because you don’t like her that will make you a tit" this too!

"There are people like this and they need shutting down, not indulging" even taking that stance ignoring and disciplining A without taking the proper advice is career risking behaviour. You don't shut down gossips by sticking your head in the sand, you shut them down by being able to say the situation was impartially checked on and there's nothing to it.

I can't believe that you are ignoring it. I would at the very least speak to HR and get their advice- how do you know there haven't been other complaints about B and A. Even if there is no affair B is behaving inappropriately and unprofessionally - his behaviour could be called harassment. Using Sexist/sexual language in a workplace is not appropriate. He may be a nice chap/doing nothing wrong but even so behaviour like this could get him in a lot of trouble. I've been in situations where B behaved like this to a number of people - he just got in the habit (I think) of believing (because the original person didn't object) that it was ok.
Also you are effectively punishing A for raising concerns- this would be a breach of most companies whistleblowing policies.

FFS no wonder so many people suffer with workplace stress when cunts like this A have to be pandered to rather than told to fuck off with their shitstirring. OP has said repeatedly that A is a troublemaker and a drama-llama. And her obsession with other people's private lives is not 'whistleblowing' - it's gossip. Whistleblowing is for breaches of the law or health and safety issues.

reanimated OP dislike of A has gotten worse yes as have the descriptions of her

Either way the advice should be the same she is clearly too bias to make this decision - if A is as much of a troublemaker as the OP states HR will handle it

OP pass it to HR. They will tell you how to handle it and protect you.

I think OP's descriptions of A 'got worse' because OP wasn't quite prepared for the high percentage of snitches and monogamy police who would respond to her post. Something I have noted about MN is how many posters are awfully keen on telling tales to 'authority' about stuff that is none of their business - and how many lose their shit completely when there's the faintest whiff of a threat to monogamy.

Please don't speak to HR.

My DH was quizzed by HR in a similar situation. In his case the junior employee was the tactile one and someone misinterpreted him helping her walk down the street when she was very drunk as a clinch and reported it.

How do I know it was that innocent? I work with the pair of them and was walking 10ft behind them. I saw the whole thing. Junior employee is my peer and my friend - she has no interest in DH. She's just tactile with everyone and got a bit sloshed.

DH was really upset about the allegations (easily disproved) because he felt they left a stain on his character and also had the potential to destroy our family, had I believed them. It's also uncomfortable to feel you're the subject of gossip, which we must have been.

Get your facts straight before you take any action. You can't stop A going to HR but you can at least stop short of making a complaint based on bugger all.

Well, I've handled it my way:

Our group chief compliance officer is a friend and a mentor. Ran it by her over coffee without naming names to at least pay lip service to covering my skinny behind.

Her response: "FFS, Taken, you'll never make partner if you keep on feeling obliged to waste your time on petty shit like this non-issue. Go on and make a few sales instead, you're a senior executive, not a playground monitor, dear girl."

... and whilst I'm not particularly keen on making partner, our actual partners seem to struggle to comprehend that anyone might have any other ambition in life. I'm hence concluding that ignoring the gossip is supposedly the better career choice.

Glad to hear it, OP.

Good call. However, to protect your arse I’d make a written note of that meeting and keep it somewhere. If this all blows up in the future you’ll want to be able to prove you flagged it up.

In this situation, I’d now ignore A’s bleating complaint. If she brings it up again, say it’s been flagged to someone higher up and the matter has been dealt with (or some such wording) - make it clear the matter is closed but keep it vague so she then won’t know to whom it was escalated, in what form or what the upshot was. Then she’s limited in what she can do about it.

A sounds like a shit stirrer who needs to learn to mind her own business. I say that as someone who was on the end of a whole heap of office gossip just because I was a single woman in her 20s who happened to be friends with men in my office. I don’t know what drove it - jealousy of friendships, sad people with nothing better to occupy their minds than put two and two together to make nine, whatever - but it was bloody annoying to be on the end of others’ wagging tongues and to know that my every move was watched and judged.