To think this supposed affair isn't one and needs no attention from HR

[TakenForSlanted]

Bone of contention between a colleague (A) and myself, concerning two other colleagues (B and C):

B is a married male senior executive. C is a single female junior executive and A's subordinate. For context: we're talking about senior professionals in their 30s and 40s here, not about helpless graduates.

This much is uncontroversial: It's evident that B and C like each other on a personal level. It's the kind of going on breaks, laughing and joking together that people just do when they get along.

Colleague A, however, thinks that there's more to it than that and that B and C are involved in a fully blown affair. Her evidence, supposedly:

• B often touching C's arm as they speak
• B and C standing very close to one another in a nearly empty lift and brushing up against one another despite there being no need to
• B supposedly leaning in over C's shoulder as they discuss an item on her desk and their faces, according to A, being "literally about 5 inches away from each other"
• B and C teasing each other constantly (this much is actually true - they definitely do this. But then it's something I do with some of my friends, too).
• C calling B "adorable" in A's presence and B calling C "hot as shit" [in a context that, IMO, is more likely to be about her as a professional than about her looks].

Colleague A thinks this is clearly inappropriate and that it's obvious B and C are having an affair. A also believes the right thing to do would be to say as much to HR. With B being C's boss, an affair would clearly not be in line with policy.

I think A's being utterly ridiculous and that they may just be colleagues who get along on a personal level. I also happen to think that - even if A were spot on (and I don't think she is) it'd be none of her business.

Personal declaration of bias: C is someone I used to line manage and in whose integrity I trust. A is someone I currently line manage and who's "reported" the B and C situation to me semi-formally and has since followed up with me about me ignoring it. I frankly like C more than A both in a personal and in a professional capacity, but I also happen to think that not taking this further co-incides with my best professional judgment of what I ought to do.

So who IBU here? Me for not reporting or A for insisting to make these people her business?

If an affair is against company policy and it looks like to A, C's boss, that they may be having one then I think a quiet word to b and c is needed.

Do you know why A is reporting it? Is it to be malicious or are they worried about favouritism?

YAB a bit U.

I agree that as long as work is getting done then let people get on with it. But, there is a line. If B & C's behaviour is causing gossip - and I guarantee that A will not be the only one noticing - then they need to rein it in. They are at work and should be mindful of professionalism; not acting like a stuffed shirt, but being aware that certain things are not appropriate for the office and how things look.

The other side of it is that people need to not be gossiping. In this instance, I'd want to know if A herself is fuelling any of this.

Short answer - conversation with C to give her the heads-up and ask her to be a bit more circumspect. Conversation with A to say it's been dealt with and the matter is now closed.

Is there any proof that C is being specially favoured in her career (perhaps in preference to A) as a result of her friendship with B? Or that either B or C's work is being affected by their relationship (whatever it is)? I've been out of the workplace for years, so my advice is probably worth nothing, but if there is no proof of the above, I would favour warning C about the gossip and the impression her relationship with B is giving to others in the workplace. Depending on your relationship with B, I would also warn him in the same way. I would then go to HR and tell them about the gossip which has been reported to you and about which you've been asked to take action, and what you've done about it.
(I personally agree that A needs to keep out of it, unless she really feels her own position is being affected/compromised by B and C's friendship/affair.)

I hate when I type a long answer and come back to find others have said the same but much better and more succinctly!

In my experience, people who are having secret affairs at work make efforts to hide them, not flirt and touch all over the place. Their behaviour to me sounds like good friends who are so confident they're not having an affair that they just assume everyone else knows that too.

What does A want from reporting it? Does she want their behaviour to stop? Or does she just want to know whether they are actually having an affair?

In my experience, people who are having secret affairs at work make efforts to hide them, not flirt and touch all over the place.

I worked in a place where two affairs were going on simultaneously - in one case they were very quiet about it, in the other they were absolutely flagrant and were the focus of intense gossip for months before it all came out.

So I don't think there's a rule.

I agree with resistance affair or not it’s inappropriate behaviour that you appear to be condoning because you don’t like A

It could make people uncomfortable there is a time and a place for it and the office isn’t it

Your OP says that C is a subordinate to A. If this this is the case, then why is A not speaking to C herself?

If A is senior to C then I also don't see how A can be concerned about favouritism unless there are other junior execs at the same leven as C who are perhaps bring sidelined due to B and C's friendship.

Personally I'd want to tell her A to stfu and mind her own business but I'm guessing you can't really do that.

Say to A there is no actual evidence, just speculation/tittle tattle but you'll have a word. Then say to the B and C discretely that someone has said they are concerned so you are just checking there is no need for concern, then if they are they'll know to keep it a bit more discrete.

But it's NOT "fuck all to do with anybody else" if it's clearly against company policy

I'm sorry, I think you have to report it. You can say "personally I think it's nothing, but..." by all means, but you can't just ignore a request. If A did go directly to HR they'd want to know why you hadn't done anything. And if the shit did hit the fan because it is an affair you'd look especially bad.

I actually think it's really unprofessional of you to avoid reporting it because you like C and you don't like A.

I agree with EdgeOfHeaven I too have known of both flagrancy and secrecy in situations like this.

Any chance A might be a bit jealous? At any rate her comments may be defamatory if she presents them as a fact. And really it doesn’t matter. Yes it may be against policy but the rule is a bit arbitrary isn’t it? Does it really matter if the are screwing each other so long as it isn’t affecting g their performance?

I'm so sorry, I completely missed that C is A's subordinate. Why can't she talk to C directly herself?

Report what? Two people flirting?

It’s ridiculous how over involved people are in other people’s lives.

Its doesnt matter if they are having an affair that behaviour isnt approporiate and has been noticed. And lets face it given how high up B clearly is its not going to affect him but C (and I suspect scupper any promotion chances for her).

C has a lot to lose by doing this behaviour in the office and actually a quite word to point out how frankly naive she is being with it is for C own good. And she is supposedly a senior professional in her 30s

If you like C (and you clearly do) then talk to her because she is only going to get hurt one way or another from this

Although B doesnt sound particularly pleasant - hot as shit my god

If you have someone you trust in HR who is pragmatic and not likely to go immediately to formal processes I would aim to explore this with them informally first.
I have worked in HR for nearly 30 years. My view is that it could be a problem based on the actual behaviour but it depends on the potential influence of B over A and C when it came to such things as promotion, salary, redundancy. But the policies and culture of your organisation are important too.

Talking it through with someone who has the context makes the most sense and then feeding back to A so she feels listened to but being clear about the decision.

I think A has gone to op because although A outranks C, B outranks A?

I think the hierarchy goes

Op & B

A

C

??

So A could deal with C but tricky with B's involvement

The affair or over familiarity is being noticed and commented on and making both parties look stupid. I work in HR we don't get involved in affairs but in this case we would let B know that people are talking and he needs to rein it in. Or we may find a reason to shunt one of them to a different role. We'd look on it unfavorable at promotion, pay rise etc too.

So yes, A is doing the right thing.

I think A is being unprofessional and gossiping. She shouldn't be making speculative accusations against colleagues. She may or may not be right but the evidence is not their to infer that they are breaching company policy.

You need to decide whether this needs to go further based on the facts not on A's guesses about what they may be doing outside the office.

It is debatable whether fratinisation is unprofessional but I think most company's accept you can't control every aspect of how employees' behave and wouldn't be interested in colleagues being a bit to friendly.

I would tell A you have considered it and you don't think there is enough evidence of a breach in policy to take in any further. I'd make some kind of note of that and then leave it.

Excellent post from Graphista

We had "over-familiarity" such as lots of arm touching, joking about, play-jostling and it was reported to me (HR) by about four different people. I had a word with both sides - we have no policy about work relationships, and one was not the manager of the other BUT it was evidently making others uncomfortable (and causing a bit of resentment about how much work they were getting done). They were both ethical good people and I had no concerns about the latter, but I had a firm discreet word with each of them separately, asking them to reflect on how they were coming across, consider how they wanted to be thought of, and get it under control in the workplace. I have not had any further reports / witnessed anything myself.

My point here is that, unless you lot are the only ones in your office, probably other people have noticed it too and may have reported it already. I think I would ask A to tell you exactly what she objects to - don't put words in her mouth, but is she distracted by it, does she think she's disadvantaged by it, does she think it puts an area of work at risk..? Depending on the seriousness of her answer, I would either go and have a word with B about moderating their behaviour (and I would choose B because they are the more senior so should be setting the example, and because you have less of a personal friendship with them) or I would ask HR to note A's concerns and advise you whether any action is necessary.

I think A is being given an unfair pasting on here from some deliberately provocative posters.

If the flirting is making the staff feel uncomfortable then it needs to be addressed. I would have thought a quiet word with both parties would be more appropriate than escalating it to HR.

Regardless of if anyone thinks there is anything going on with them, if the flirting and touching is making your colleague uncomfortable then they are within their rights to report it to somebody. If you are their manager, you are being very unprofessional by not taking them seriously based on a separate working relationship. If you aren't, tell them to go to HR but would prefer to stay out of gossip.

Where I work, behaviour that (rationally) makes colleagues uncomfortable is not condoned. This would be classed as inappropriate.

Also there is a difference between workplace friendship and inappropriate behaviour. I used to work with a male colleague (same team), now not on the same team but same organisation. We meet up for onsite lunch a few times a week. A couple of people find this odd, but he is literally just my friend. We have a lot in common and quite frankly it beats lunch on my own.
But I don't think we have ever come in to physical contact. Let alone regularly touching arms when talking etc.