To think this supposed affair isn't one and needs no attention from HR

[TakenForSlanted]

Bone of contention between a colleague (A) and myself, concerning two other colleagues (B and C):

B is a married male senior executive. C is a single female junior executive and A's subordinate. For context: we're talking about senior professionals in their 30s and 40s here, not about helpless graduates.

This much is uncontroversial: It's evident that B and C like each other on a personal level. It's the kind of going on breaks, laughing and joking together that people just do when they get along.

Colleague A, however, thinks that there's more to it than that and that B and C are involved in a fully blown affair. Her evidence, supposedly:

• B often touching C's arm as they speak
• B and C standing very close to one another in a nearly empty lift and brushing up against one another despite there being no need to
• B supposedly leaning in over C's shoulder as they discuss an item on her desk and their faces, according to A, being "literally about 5 inches away from each other"
• B and C teasing each other constantly (this much is actually true - they definitely do this. But then it's something I do with some of my friends, too).
• C calling B "adorable" in A's presence and B calling C "hot as shit" [in a context that, IMO, is more likely to be about her as a professional than about her looks].

Colleague A thinks this is clearly inappropriate and that it's obvious B and C are having an affair. A also believes the right thing to do would be to say as much to HR. With B being C's boss, an affair would clearly not be in line with policy.

I think A's being utterly ridiculous and that they may just be colleagues who get along on a personal level. I also happen to think that - even if A were spot on (and I don't think she is) it'd be none of her business.

Personal declaration of bias: C is someone I used to line manage and in whose integrity I trust. A is someone I currently line manage and who's "reported" the B and C situation to me semi-formally and has since followed up with me about me ignoring it. I frankly like C more than A both in a personal and in a professional capacity, but I also happen to think that not taking this further co-incides with my best professional judgment of what I ought to do.

So who IBU here? Me for not reporting or A for insisting to make these people her business?

The trouble with this idea that making someone 'uncomfortable' should be a disciplinary matter is that it encourages whinyarses, skivers, sneaks and habitual shit-stirrers.
Also, company policies that forbid 'relationships' are generally best ignored, because they are likely to be an indication of overzealous and intrusive management and, again, encourage twats like A to spend their time running off and telling tales rather than getting on with their work.
If you've got an office whiner, what you need to do is manage them out as quickly as possible, they are far more disruptive than someone shagging a colleague.

If it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s probably a duck.

This relationship sounds like it’s gone far beyond the boundaries of a normal office friendship. Even IF there is nothing physical going on outside the office they are behaving in a way that is inappropriate and other colleagues have noticed and object.

I think your judgement is completedy clouded - you line manage A - you confess to liking C more than A if that should even come into it. A comes to you with something yet despite being her line manager you have decided to ignore it. Report to HR or at least ask their advice - that’s their job - they get to decide what’s going on or not. If you don’t agree with A then say that when you report it.

Your obligation above everything else is to the company you work for. HR usually wants to know about certain relationships because if they go pears up and the subordinate claims sexual harassment by their boss then it’s the company which ends up paying for the damages. Honestly, it’s not your job to have an opinion - it’s your job as a manager to report to HR if something like this is raised.

“C is someone I used to line manage and in whose integrity I trust.”

C can have all the integrity in the Universe & still be behaving as A describes.

I think everyone is being unprofessional including the OP. Actually especially the OP who is basing her actions on a preference for one of the letters.

Get the team together and watch All About Eve. Then discuss the actions and behaviour of the protagonists.

I don't see why it would be OP's job to report this to HR even if there were anything to report. Is OP B or C's manager? If not, then it's none of his or her business.

Honestly, it’s not your job to have an opinion - it’s your job as a manager to report to HR if something like this is raised.

Agree with this. I used to work under somebody that let their friendships with colleagues cloud the way they managed them. One specific person was absolutely dreadful for so many reasons, but nothing was ever done, because to the line manager the sun shone out of their arse. It's not fair on everyone else.

A needs to mind her own business!

Maybe tell HR that A has raised the issue with you so you feel duty bound to pass it on to them although personally you have seen nothing to make you think there's anything untoward about their relationship.

My mum used to work with a friend of mine, she was convinced the friend was having an affair with another member of the office staff for all the reasons you have described. I vigorously defended my mate. I’d known her for years, she was a newly wed, she wasn’t the cheating kind etc etc. Even when the mates marriage broke up and then a few weeks later the other man’s marriage went the same way, the two of them maintained they were just good office friends and I trusted my mate so I believed her.

That was 25 years ago. Since then the truth has come out - of course the two of them were having an affair. My mum wasn’t blind! But I had been blinded by my loyalty to my good friend. My mum hardly ever reminds me of this time or tells me ‘I told you so’ , sometimes whole months can go by without her mentioning it!

I had a similar situation several years ago. I took C aside one day and basically said, it's none of my business, but this is being said about you and B, I really don't care if it's true or not. But I think you should tone things down a bit in the office, as other people are being made uncomfortable.

Thanks for all the responses. And some clarification, typo in the OP:

So the hierarchy goes like:

Myself >>> A
B >>> C

So A is not C's manager. I mixed my letters up. I work with B occasionally on management level things but our teams are not involved in the same stuff in daily business. They're not even on the same floor of the building. A and C literally don't have much to do with one another and don't mix work wise except at social events and industry talks etc. They work different clients in the same general industry. A and B don't really interact at all. A would be aware of B (in the sense that you would know the senior execs in your own business group). I suspect B may think of A as "brunette in OP's team". A and C, obviously, used to be team mates.

And that's essentially why I don't think A has a legitimate complaint to make about B and C. They literally don't work together these days or in the same space.

I'm aware that I have to be fair to A as A's manager. She's regrettably got quite a track record of gossiping and starting drama about minor stuff (e.g. tent sharing allocations on a "fun" trip, other people's personal items on their desks, ...). In a nutshell: she's great at her job but high maintenance.

Are B and C behaving like you said in your OP because that is inappropriate

Absolutely no-one's business. A sounds like a nightmare to manage...

Yup, A's a spiteful cunt, slap her down. Unless she's superlative at her job she sounds like someone who needs to be eased out of the company.

I wouldn't know, Quartz, in that I've never witnessed anything that I considered inappropriate myself.

I have witnessed teasing between them, but in a manner that is not out of line with how some of our more extroverted colleagues interact (e.g. "yeah, sure, we'll sell it and then I'll position you as [the role that, famously, nobody ever wants]) and not, in my opinion, sexual.

I also experience B as being quite a tactile type, so I've no difficulty believing he'd touch someone's arm in conversation. I've seen him do it with clients - never in an inappropriate or even uncomfortable manner, though.

Apart from that I've no basis to judge. At best, I can tell it's not a hot topic on the office gossip hit list. That's hardly evidence for or against anything.

And, yes, A is a PITA to manage, to be honest. She's also, however, the world's leading expert on random niche technology thing and well worth all the annoyance in terms of revenue generated.

Have you tried an informal verbal warning to the effect that she needs to mind her own business?

I have seen this sort of behaviour twice in our offices, and twice it was a general detriment to the working environment.

First time - man with girlfriend, single female. They flirted, 'bantered' and behaved in a quite exclusive way in the office. When they had misdemeanours, they passionately defended one another in the workplace, crossing professional boundaries to do so. They ended up in a relationship and still are four years later (both left the company).

Second time - married man, single woman. I am certain it was nothing but friendship on the man's side. For the woman - not certain. But their too-close friendship again was highly disruptive to other staff. They would chatter and snigger and giggle between the two of them, didn't welcome new staff, and the woman indulged in light bullying of another staff member because she felt like she was impressing him. She was fired eventually when she took their 'banter' too far.

In both cases, the overly close personal friendships and how they acted/made other people feel at work were the important thing. Not whether or not they were shagging.

I'd have a word with B. Tell him people are gossiping.

I was C in that scenario when I was younger. We were genuinely just friends who got on really well. I ended up leaving because nothing that I achieved or done was ever down to me - everything I did was put down to the fact Iwas supposedly shagging my boss. One person even complained to HR that the boss allowed me to "skive for a whole day every week" even though I had always only worked 4 days even before the boss joined the school.

Ignoring the concern that A has raised with you about a potential breach of company policy is as much an issue from a line management perspective as whether or not the policy is being breached. I personally would describe A's complaint to HR, provide my take on it, ask for advice, and follow it. You're not impartial here and in the nicest possible sense it is not surprising that your perception of the right course professionally reflects what you want to do personally.

I wouldn't take any action with B or C until I had some advice from HR.

None of the behaviour here is against any companies policy and it would only be if either be or c complained.

My opinion is you'd be on very sticky ground legally to accuse these people of an affair with no evidence, and you cannot have a word with them about their behaviour inless they actually do something wrong.

My approach would be to speak to hr about A.she needs to be dealt with correctly, she cannot go throwing accusations about, and she needs to make complaints based on evidence, not her imagination, and she needs to understand why the company can't accuse people like this.

So I would speak to hr. but about A.

You say A, B & C don't work together, are on different floors of the building yet A, and you admit you have too, has witnessed the behaviour described. If you and A have seen it, others will have also.

I still think your dislike of A and your like of C is clouding your judgement, you are not looking at this objectively. As you cannot do that move it upwards to someone who can, HR, let them deal with it.