To refuse to support DD in having hobbies anymore?

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

DD is 11 and is very sociable and outgoing. Since the age of 5 she's tried out about every extra curricular activity going. She's on the school team for every sport and loves competing in pretty much everything she can. She's also massively into drama and dance and would love to study drama at Uni.

Over the years, I've spent thousands of pounds and countless hours supporting her in all of her activities but now I'm considering refusing to do so any longer. The issue is her father - from whom I have been separated for many many years - does not support her in any activities. DD only sees him fortnightly but this has still managed to disrupt so many things for her.

For example, she took tap classes and after a year was picked to perform a solo in the dance schools annual show. She was beyond excited and was talking about it for weeks. When the show drew closer, her father said he didn't agree to her taking part (it fell on his weekend with her, I offered to swap/take and return her/him to come and watch) and she wouldn't tell him how much it meant to her, she missed it and then once she was home she was so upset - she then wouldn't return to the dance school as she thought she'd let the teacher down, and because she didn't see the point of improving if she could never perform.

Similar incidents have happened with several other activities; she'll take classes and adore them, get really good, be asked to perform or compete, be desperate to do so but then if it requires even minimal commitment on her weekrnd with her father, he'll say no and she won't stand up for herself. I have fought her corner with him for years but he won't back down, despite knowing how upset she gets, and she won't tell him she is desperate to take part.

Tonight I had to drag her 3 younger siblings to collect her from drama class at 7.45pm, they're all tired and she comes out absolutely buzzing because she's been picked for a main part in their performance. That's great, but for the last month they'll have rehearsals on Saturday mornings - which her father won't let her attend. I just feel like it's deja vu and there's no point putting me and her siblings through taxiing her around, not to mention paying out for the activities when they can never progress so she ultimately gives them up.

I've tried empowering her to speak up to him but she absolutely refuses. WIBU to say there's no point taking anything else up, or does that just make me as bad as him?

[TheBigFatMermaid]

It's a dreadful shame but after giving this far more thought than I should... has she tried martial arts?

My DD does karate, she does gradings according to how many times she has attended classes, she gets graded at different times, so one month the grading might hit when she is with her Dad, the next it might not. Competitions are a part of it for us and DD but they don't have to be.


It might just work for your DD and as a bonus, confidence comes along with it................ you know, just coincidentally.

[callmeadoctor]

Your DD doesn't need counselling, the OP does. FGS stand up for your child. Im appalled that you are suggesting that your daughter needs to stand up for herself when you are unable to! Don't tell your daughter of any whinging he does, let him take you to court!

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

Martial arts is about the only thing she hasn't ever shown an interest in, actually! She's super confident in her daily life. It just all disappears when it comes to him

[callmeadoctor]

OP why are you expecting an 11year old to be confident in going against her father, thats your job!

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

callmeadoctor What do you suggest I do that I haven't already? He is in daily contact with her via phone, I can't just not tell her his thoughts - he's perfectly willing to say no to her

[callmeadoctor]

It sounds like you are frightened of ex and have abandoned your child to his clutches while you have wimped out, and expect her to battle on her own, she is 11!!!!!

[callmeadoctor]

Jeez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NeverSayFreelance]

He's a controlling father and she's afraid of him. She can't stand up to him because he scares her. She's 11, she can't really be expected to stand up to her father.

I don't know what else you can do. Taking her activities away seems cruel, but if there's no way to get her DF to cooperate then I don't know what the answer is - other than getting a lawyer and forcing him to stop this.

[RedHelenB]

She will have to do activities where you don't have to commit if you are unwilling to confront your ex about this. It is unfair for her to audition for a main part when she can't fulfill it.

[Chocmallows]

I really feel your frustration and sense of imprisonment, because when an ex decides that their need for control is the priority over coparenting for the DCs benefit there really is very little you can do.

I am sick of explaining my ex's lies and contradictions to have people tell me that I need to tell him what to do or "try this, try that". The person in the wrong is not the one arranging things and listening to DCs, is is the one actively not asking questions and not listening.

Focus on what you can do when you are with DCs, if you think there are too many groups going on then arrange less groups, if a show is missed keep the feedback straightforward and honest - "I'm sorry this has happened". You cannot change the way he presents himself to the DCs, or make them fight back, but you can listen and support them and arrange support through the schools.

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

I have confronted him!! He knows I think he's a selfish arsehole. He also knows he's manipulated DD so well that she'll do and forego anything to try and earn his affection and attention.

[goldengummybear]

I think that a lot of the posts attacking you have been unfair. You're in a Catch-22. You can't stand up to him because it upsets dd and dd finds the idea of going against her Dad's demands upsetting.

The only way that things can change is if her dd says to CAFCASS or her Dad that she loves drama and would like to perform this weekend. She support Dad's and half-sister's hobbies and would like the same to happen for her. She wants to see Dad and loves him but wants flexibility around contact when there's a clash. The dd is clearly not ready to do this and op needs to forget the idea that dd can stand up for what she wants.

I've read many posts on here about NRP griping about stepchildren's activities happening on weekends. The ex might think that OP is maliciously organizing hobbies with weekend events and not have a clue how much the dd enjoys drama because dd can't be honest and say that she enjoys it. The dd might be sabotaging herself by agreeing that missing a performance is no big deal because the Dad is emotionally manipulative. How many 10yo can honestly say that there's something else they'd rather do than be with their parent?

Dd and OP probably feel crap about the number of activities stopped because of Dad's inflexibility and I understand why quitting group/performance activities is for the best. The amount of disappointment and tears involved can't be good for the dd or OP.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

She has said to me that she feels it's unfair that he and her sister can do hobbies on weekends but she can't but she would never say that to him

Until she can point out the unfairness (which i think therapy would help with) there is little atm she can do.

On the other hand if you are verbally blowing up at him isn’t doing anything.

If he has it written into his order that he has to facilitate her activities then email everything.

Let him put down in writing that he is going against the court order.
Even if he doesn’t answer the email then if there is presumed consent in the email then you can show it to your dd that her df has agreed for her to go.

Your latest updates are frustrating and grossly unfair.

If these children who are allowed to do Saturday activities in his warped mind does that mean he loves your dd more than his other children? Because what you have said that he wants to spend time with her yet doesn’t is a total mind f**k.

He can’t have it both ways.

Either he complies by the court order or he doesn’t get her for those times.

If her df is doing his activity on a Sunday why doesn’t your dd come home.

Was this guy emotionally abusive towards you when you were married because it looks like you have removed yourself from the situation and he has the need to emotionally abuse someone and your dd has stepped into your old role

[KTheGrey]

I would be cutting way back on daily phone contact for a start. Lots of ways a phone can be forgotten or not charged or can be too busy to call/ phone on silent etc.

I think I would go back to court with a full record of all these incidents; what your 11 yo is willing to sign should be irrelevant here; the fact that her father was too drunk to take care of her should mean his contact in endangered anyway. And she doesn't have to say it. You know it to be true; you write detailed records of every incidence of emotional abuse and refusal to honour the court order and go back to court. Make sure you plan-in getting costs from him.

Meanwhile, I would tell my daughter her father is too selfish to put her first and that's the hand she's been dealt, which will make her very unhappy, but has to be dealt with. Counselling might be helpful; depends on the counsellor. Then you and she together have to make her life into a happy one for her to live. It's hers, not his, and she has to live it. That will involve putting her own life first, and you have to strategize that with her. You and she plan it and if he won't facilitate it, he loses contact that time. If you don't draw the line he won't and your daughter won't be able to.

[Wallywobbles]

@Mummyoflittledragon I was interested in DD1s take on it. She now wants to be a children's lawyer. She does get it. But she's not wrong in her thinking. If everyone keeps doing the same then they'll keep getting the same result.

DD2 was absolutely traumatized by it all. She had digestive issues caused by stress. They both had eczema. They saw a brilliant CBT person who helped immensely. But it was their choice to go to court. And that's why the change was possible.

If OP fights him she'll loose. Because he has ignored the original order so he has no reason not to ignore another. If her DD fights this she'll win in all likelihood. It stops being a he said she said. That's the reality of the courts system.

OP there is a kind of therapy you could look into doing with your kid. It has a name but I don't know what it is. But it's looking at the worst possible outcome of an action.

You say: So if you said to Daddy that you really want to do this competition and so you won't be coming to his house til after but he can come and watch. What's the worst thing that can happen. Then she works each result through to its most extreme consequence. It's meant to show that really there's nothing to be terrified of.

[Disturbedone]

Hmmmm......
Can you get her into counselling?
It may help her realise she is her own person and be confident to open up to the courts x

[7yo7yo]

Stop contact.
It’s not in her best interests.
Don’t let him phone her, let him take you to court.
She’s a child, she cannot stand up to him.
Let him contact you, see what happens.
In the meantime book in her activities.
I would suggest CBT for her to build up her confidence.
He’s sounds like a waste of sperm.

[AuntieCJ]

As an aside you cannot let her accept the part. It isn't fair on the other DCs taking part or the adults organising it.

[Faultymain5]

Okay, I've read every page. I feel for you I really do. But, Helena, I have to say you have gotten to teh stage where you are only seeing what you can't do. Based on what has happened in the past. I would suggest it's time for a new tack.

I think court orders are there for a reason, I'd (without detailing the ins and outs to DD), go back to court, with evidence, to ask for an order that he has to follow through with the previous order (i.e. take her to her activities). If possible, I'd ask for an amendment to the order to say that if he is unable to take her, you will and will drop DD to him after. A very prescriptive order. When I've obtained an order to that effect (or something similar and doable), I'd explain to DD that it's up to her DF what he does, but the Court says he has to.

Obviously, you'll need legal advice to see if you can change teh order, or how to enforce the current order, but ultimately, you need to be able to absolve yourself, and DD of any blame. So she knows it's the court's "fault" that she gets to do what she wants to do.

This thread is really upsetting me, but I really hope you go through legal channels, because it will make him realise you mean business also. Oh and you have been advised she needs therapy. She really does. I think you do too if i'm honest.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

If possible, I'd ask for an amendment to the order to say that if he is unable to take her, you will and will drop DD to him after. A very prescriptive order

This

I do agree that doing the same things over and over will get the same results.

I don’t agree that giving up what her dd loves because her father won’t let her go and her mother can’t deal with the fall out is going to lead to fewer tears. It will just make Dd think that she isn’t worth any bodies time and that can lead to a life of sadness.

Friend who was emotionally abused realised her Ds was now the target of her ex’s abuse.
Her dd would be sitting in the car when her father was dropping her off after a visit and the shouting by her ex at their child you could hear inside the house.

The dd was 19 and it took a lot of people, including her friends (who I think played a very big part in it) to persuade her that it was ok to go LC/NC or just to get out of the car when he started shouting at her or making her feel uncomfortable.

This is an adult child and it took a couple of years and a lot of input from her friends, mother and other relatives that she didn’t actually have to see him and if she saw him it could be on her terms.

Your dd is only 11 and needs much more help.

If your dd was bored or wasn’t being looked after by her df could she call you to pick her up early.

I would play him at his own game though and there would be no contact during the week as if he wants uninterrupted time with her then you want uninterrupted time with her so no phone calls, emails or any form of contact.

If your dd doesn’t want her df to get into trouble then tell her that it is part of the court order and answering or taking a call or looking at an email or any form of contact during the week from her df will get him into trouble.

[storm11111]

I would build up a diary/catalogue of evidence of you asking your exh for your daughter to do these things on his weekend and his constant rejection. Then go to court and present evidence that he is contravening his court order. Nobody can argue it is in the best interest of the child to be missing all these opportunities.

[Poppylizzyrose]

I’d record what she says and play it back to him. As she’s too afraid to say it herself. He sounds so selfish and unkind.

😞 people can cause such issues for each other it’s unfair. The fact she has this fear of him would worry me, id get legal advice. Could anything bad be going on there? His control over her is worrying....

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

He knows she desperately wants to do things, he's just so selfish that he doesn't care. He's already been pulled up in court once about not facilitating activities or parties, he just says they had a "family event" when he's agreed to something then reneged on his agreement. Shopping, him drinking with his brother, her watching him do his hobby all count as "family events" in his mind

[Poppylizzyrose]

I’m concerned he doesn’t seem to care about her, it would make me want to go to court again and potentially stop access...his control and disregard for her feelings is worrying.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

Have you actually put it bluntly to your dd that whilst she won’t go against what her df says he doesn’t give a stuff about her other than her being someone he can control.

He can say he loves her till the cows come home but his actions are of someone who doesn’t care.

Words are cheap when he just want to get his own way.

Admit that she might not believe you but the next time she is with him tell her to count the number of minutes she actually spends alone in his company outside of driving her to and from his home when he collects and delivers her back.

When she has missed something she wanted to do because he wants to spend time with her. Ask her how much time does he spend with her when she could have been doing what she wanted to do.

If he has been pulled up in court before then you have to go back to the court every time and ask him to specify what the family event was.
Your dd can confirm or deny what the family event was