To refuse to support DD in having hobbies anymore?

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

DD is 11 and is very sociable and outgoing. Since the age of 5 she's tried out about every extra curricular activity going. She's on the school team for every sport and loves competing in pretty much everything she can. She's also massively into drama and dance and would love to study drama at Uni.

Over the years, I've spent thousands of pounds and countless hours supporting her in all of her activities but now I'm considering refusing to do so any longer. The issue is her father - from whom I have been separated for many many years - does not support her in any activities. DD only sees him fortnightly but this has still managed to disrupt so many things for her.

For example, she took tap classes and after a year was picked to perform a solo in the dance schools annual show. She was beyond excited and was talking about it for weeks. When the show drew closer, her father said he didn't agree to her taking part (it fell on his weekend with her, I offered to swap/take and return her/him to come and watch) and she wouldn't tell him how much it meant to her, she missed it and then once she was home she was so upset - she then wouldn't return to the dance school as she thought she'd let the teacher down, and because she didn't see the point of improving if she could never perform.

Similar incidents have happened with several other activities; she'll take classes and adore them, get really good, be asked to perform or compete, be desperate to do so but then if it requires even minimal commitment on her weekrnd with her father, he'll say no and she won't stand up for herself. I have fought her corner with him for years but he won't back down, despite knowing how upset she gets, and she won't tell him she is desperate to take part.

Tonight I had to drag her 3 younger siblings to collect her from drama class at 7.45pm, they're all tired and she comes out absolutely buzzing because she's been picked for a main part in their performance. That's great, but for the last month they'll have rehearsals on Saturday mornings - which her father won't let her attend. I just feel like it's deja vu and there's no point putting me and her siblings through taxiing her around, not to mention paying out for the activities when they can never progress so she ultimately gives them up.

I've tried empowering her to speak up to him but she absolutely refuses. WIBU to say there's no point taking anything else up, or does that just make me as bad as him?

[user1471530109]

Hi OP. I'm in a similar situation but it hasn't got quite as far along as yours.
He has so far allowed camp etc to happen on his weekend. But I get loads of verbal abuse for it and he keeps threatening to stop maintenance. Anything that falls on his weekend is given loads of notice and are few and far between.

My youngest (DD just turned 6) wants to do beavers. He won't allow her to swap her swimming lesson to his day. It's the only other slot available. He lives as close to the leisure centre as I do.

I don't understand why some of these father's believe their contact is different to normal parenting? Why should our children miss out on any experience because their parents are divorced?

My dd is very upset. He won't budge. Apparently he is so angry with me he can't discuss it . And no, they don't do anything else at that time. And he sees her 5 nights a fortnight...

No advice that isn't different to above. I think I'd just inform the organisers of the situation and go from there.
Is her residential close enough that he could collect her ready for his day, a day early?

[HotpotLawyer]

I think it is completely unrealistic to expect an 11 year old to stand up to him. She is presumably afraid of being cut off altogether. It’s too much of a burden on her.

I would either just take cjnrol and say “ she’s doing the show, outward bound as allowed in the court order, I’ll drop her off afterwards” , or send him a solivitor’s letter.

[BlueEyedPersephone]

I'm sorry you're can't have it both ways, she either wants you to stand up for her and realises that has consequences but those consequences are between the mother and father, or she tells him how she feels. She is 11 so is not in control, you are. Your ex's issue is all about you not her so send her on the trip, she wanted to go you've paid he originally agreed . She has to understand he can't always get his own way and if she sees you stand up to him she may start to feel stronger. His issues are his and it sounds like you need to point out this but without mentioning your life and other kids as frankly they are not his problem. It's also not your daughter's issue you've had more kids to cart about........

[eggsandwich]

How do the activities groups act when she lets them down at the last minute?

Its unfair on them having someone taking on a role that they know ultimately they can’t and won’t commit to, who tell the activities that she can no longer take part does she tell them or do you do it ?

If its you that does it maybe say to her that she has to tell them that she can’t commit to doing it, at 11 she should be starting to shoulder some responsibility herself and have a voice I know my dd did.

Do you also say to her when she tells you that she’s been pick and some weekends are involved, how will that work when your at your dads.

[QueenEhlana]

Just stop organising things for those weekends! You KNOW she won't do them. Just stop! YOU make it clear to organisers that they can't give her roles etc which require attendance in his weekends.

After 6 years it is hardly a surprise anymore!

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

It's not as simple as just not taking on roles. The drama group rehearse for their summer show from now until the performance in July. If she isn't going to be in the show, she can't go to rehearsals.

[FrozenMargarita17]

Your poor dd :(

Counselling would be a great tool for her - I grew up with a nasty father and I still have self esteem issues and I'm 30.

He is fucking up her self esteem, her confidence, her actual abilities - she has all this potential and talent by the sounds of it, and he's taking it away. If he doesn't let her do these things she will be stuck in her 'box' for years never having the confidence to do anything :(

[TheInvestigator]

Eh... If it's the in the court order and he isn't doing it then just keep her home, take her to the activity and he can see her for whatever time is left in the day.

He won't take you back to court, or he will have to admit what he's been doing.

[marvellousnightforamooncup]

I was going to suggest the same TheInvestigator. What would happen if you did that and he had to take you to court?

[EvaHarknessRose]

OK, you are in the final few years before she recognises that he is emotionally abusing her. This is going to be immensely painful and she needs the most supportive mother in the world. She can then choose not to see him. Do not make this her problem. What 11 year old can speak up against such a Dad.

Just be clear you support her to the hilt, but realisitically you need to speak to the teachers to explain that you and she have no control over attendance at weekend rehearsals.

Its always fine to limit activities if the cost is too much or the child is over committed (I wonder if she is keeping busy to manage emotions).

[TheBossOfMe]

Have you spoken to the organisers about her just not being able to do every weekend? I’d be incredibly surprised if they haven’t come across this situation before - my DD does a weekend activity where some children only participate on certain weekends due to contact arrangements. They still get picked. One of them is competing in a national final this coming weekend along with DD - even though they’ve only been to 2 out of 4 of the prep sessions.

[havingtochangeusernameagain]

Let her go on the trip and let her go to the rehearsals/activities.

See him in court. Or not.

She comes first. Not his petty ego.

[BarbarianMum]

It's time you stood up to this man and (further) up for your dd. Past time.

[averythinline]

think you need your fighting pants on ! there is no way she should miss her trip etc coz he's a wanker...

warn him that if he does not facilitate her clubs as in court order- get the exact words from the order- maybe a solictors letter if he is more likely to respond to that...
she will not be coming to contact or you will drop her after or teh next day
its in the court order -use it..if he doesnt comply - stop contact and he can take you to court....for him not complying...

if she wonders why - just say dad is not following the rules so until he follows the rules arrangements are changing....

She is too young imho to have to say no to him.....

[Justonemorepancake]

Poor girl. And you - what a shitty and frustrating situation. When she came out buzzing that she had been cast in a main role, did you sit her down and explain to her that she will need to decline it and why? I'm wondering what her reaction was? I think, as a drama addict at that age myself (and also from a divorced home) that would have been a penny drop moment for me, and the point at which I would have asked for your support to change the situation with him.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

Are you taking on board the comments op? You’ve only responded to a poster suggesting you things on his time.

[Troels]

I'd let her do all her activities and peform as much as she like, she can stay home until it's done and go see Dad later in the day if she wants.
If he has a problem with that, let him take you to court and explain to the judge how he doesn't want his child to have a life with extra curricular activities that she loves and excells at. Mean and miserable bastard that he is.

[RitaFairclough]

What would happen if you sat him down and told him that unless he takes her to activities on his weekend, even you will go back to court and make it a condition?

Who looks after your daughter while he is off doing his hobbies at the weekend?

[frazzledasarock]

My DC went thro this. They were terrified of their father and wouldn’t speak up to CAFCASS.

You need a two pronged approach with this, firstly explain to your dd that she can’t take on any commitments that fall on her father’s weekend unless she’s will to go ahead and follow thro and attend during his weekend, with your full support.

Tell her you’ll fight for her but she will need to speak for herself as the courts need to know it’s her who wants to do this thing.

Tell her also you will try and make sure her father gets his allocated time with her and you will ensure you offer to swap days etc so he doesn’t miss his time if he wants to spend time with her. Tell her also you will get written permission from him for anything she wants to do on his allocated days before you make a firm commitment for it but once it’s agreed and in place she can’t back out even if her father does.

Then I’d put in place a system whereby you email him for his permission then stick to things.

I’d be looking at taking him back to court too and also ensuring all groups and clubs your dd attends knows about her father’s behaviour.

If it returns to court I’d be asking for reports from the clubs and producing written evidence that your ex is saying one thing then doing another.

Also definitely look at CBT for your daughter mine had private therapy for years to help her handle her fear of her father and also to help her understand that there are lots of adults who care about her and are on her side and want to empower her to be in charge of her own life & also who listen to her and agree and sympathise with her. That was very important for her to understand.

Therapist also sent a letter to court supporting our application.

[Boysey45]

I'd just tell the activity she cant do any weekends, so if its just rehearsals or sports during the week then so be it. Then they wont be asking her to do things which she wont commit to.
You cant be going on like this with it, its not fair on her or you or your other kids either.

[tokirara]

OP, you seem frustrated but resigned to not being able to change the situation with her dad because of previous experience with the courts.

Here is another way to look at it - he has all the power over your DD's enjoyment of regular activities. He gets drunk when looking after her. Listen to the OPs asking you to seek counselling for your DD to help her stand up for herself, instead of just throwing up your hands at the situation in frustration and focusing (as your posts suggest) on the money and time and inconvenience it is causing.

Think about the long term damage all this disappointment (of missing out on milestone activities because of her dad) will cause her. You have to do something to tackle the problem (her FOG and/or her dad) not the symptom (cutting out the classes).

[MyNewtMyFrogMyLittleRedDog]

Honestly your dear daughter sounds scared of her shitty father. Most pones have a record function. I would sit her down to discuss the thing in full being very careful not to ask her any leading questions. tell her you are thinking of drawing the EC activities to a close as she never wants to do the shows. Allow er to talk about how it's her Dad, not her that will not allow it.

It may seem underhand but I would walk over hot coals to protect my children and allow them a childhood. I spent my entire teenage life running messenger for my seperated parents and I hated how it impacted on my dreams and life goals. I wanted to do cadets and join the army and couldn't as dad lived 40 miles away and I had to go at my mums insistence to scope out the new wife. Dad wouldn't let me go more often as he would grill me about mums love life.

It was brutal and I would never say a word about either but it set me up to feel totally worthless and to have low self esteem.....I walked into the first relationship I could find and was being beaten up pretty regularly, gaslighted and sexually abused too. I felt it was totally normal for my needs to be right at the bottom of the pile so carried on until two kids later.

You do what you do to help and protect your children. If she won't say the words, then ask her to write it down. If she can not speak up about her needs, you need to help her learn. Her needs DO matter. her wants DO matter and people that love her SHOULD care. He does not care about her, only the hold this has over you. So take steps to end it.

[Micah]

We had the opposite. Sdd wanted to do lots of extra-curriculars, gymnastics, dance, music etc. When she was small we’d check out local classes, take her for the trials, pay for a term. Then her mum would refuse to take her- she always “had plans” for those days, which usually meant shopping or similar that could have waited til after sdd’s 9 am class.

So she’d go every other week for a term, then it would fizzle as she was missing so much she wasn’t keeping up.

When she got to secondary she would ask herself, get herself on waiting lists etc. The ex would phone us, tell us all about sdd starting x,y and z class, but she could only do it if we paid (knowing we would as dh is big on extra curriculars). We’d hand over the money (directly to her as “it was easier”). We’d take her to a few classes before ex would say it’s “interfering with homework” or some such and put a stop to it. Even the music lessons through school were all signed up for and paid but she never started.

Because it was her mum we couldn’t just barge in to her house and take her, plus like o/p’s dd she would not go against her mum.

Unless you can find an activity which is payg- where you can dip in and out to suit, we never managed to make it work. Sdd did do running for a while as she could do that with dh as and when.

I’d be inclined to let her go on her camp and tell he he dad has agreed, and deal with the fall out. Tell him if he tries to take her from the camp it is against the court order and the police will treat it as kidnap (which they will if there is a legal document in place).

[titchy]

Take it back to court ffs - that's how you stand up for her. Why aren't you? I assume you can prove everything?