To refuse to support DD in having hobbies anymore?

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

DD is 11 and is very sociable and outgoing. Since the age of 5 she's tried out about every extra curricular activity going. She's on the school team for every sport and loves competing in pretty much everything she can. She's also massively into drama and dance and would love to study drama at Uni.

Over the years, I've spent thousands of pounds and countless hours supporting her in all of her activities but now I'm considering refusing to do so any longer. The issue is her father - from whom I have been separated for many many years - does not support her in any activities. DD only sees him fortnightly but this has still managed to disrupt so many things for her.

For example, she took tap classes and after a year was picked to perform a solo in the dance schools annual show. She was beyond excited and was talking about it for weeks. When the show drew closer, her father said he didn't agree to her taking part (it fell on his weekend with her, I offered to swap/take and return her/him to come and watch) and she wouldn't tell him how much it meant to her, she missed it and then once she was home she was so upset - she then wouldn't return to the dance school as she thought she'd let the teacher down, and because she didn't see the point of improving if she could never perform.

Similar incidents have happened with several other activities; she'll take classes and adore them, get really good, be asked to perform or compete, be desperate to do so but then if it requires even minimal commitment on her weekrnd with her father, he'll say no and she won't stand up for herself. I have fought her corner with him for years but he won't back down, despite knowing how upset she gets, and she won't tell him she is desperate to take part.

Tonight I had to drag her 3 younger siblings to collect her from drama class at 7.45pm, they're all tired and she comes out absolutely buzzing because she's been picked for a main part in their performance. That's great, but for the last month they'll have rehearsals on Saturday mornings - which her father won't let her attend. I just feel like it's deja vu and there's no point putting me and her siblings through taxiing her around, not to mention paying out for the activities when they can never progress so she ultimately gives them up.

I've tried empowering her to speak up to him but she absolutely refuses. WIBU to say there's no point taking anything else up, or does that just make me as bad as him?

[MiniMum97]

I would send her anyway regardless of the "meltdown". Why is your word not also important to her? It sounds like he is emotionally abusing her to hold that much power over her (and you). And I don't do the MN thing if shouting abuse every time someone raises their voice!!! .I don't use that word lightly.

If court has ordered she has to do her activities I would take all the power from her and him and say that is what will happen on all weekends going forward. If he says he won't take her, you take her and he can see her afterwards. Tell her that is what will he happening and it's not her decision. Take all the pressure off her. Make it your problem.

If he starts saying he will take her and then doesn't I would take over taking her to all activities until he agrees to do as the court ordered.

You are letting him get away with really hurting your daughter. Don't let him do it.

[thenightsky]

I coach a kids team, if one of our players was in this situation, I would be happy to email the dad directly and say "DD has a place on the team, amazing, she works so hard. This means she must be at practice... can you bring her each week or would you like us to help sort out a lift share?"

^^ would this work OP? He's more likely to be polite and obliging towards a complete stranger than you I should think. Unless he really isn't bothered about looking like a big sulky twat. Think of it as turning the guilt back on him, instead of your DD.

[goldengummybear]

Yanbu to stop the hobbies. Your hands are tied- you stand up to him and she will be upset and she won't admit to her father how much she enjoys the hobbies.

I would stick to solo hobbies that don't jnvolve any weekend participation- music (Not stuff like an orchestra which will involve performances), foreign language clubs, craft clubs, private tuition in a solo sport with no competitions etc

Hopefully when she's older she will vote with her feet and tell her Dad what she wants. It's shit that she can't do what she wants now but not doing drama at 10 won't stop her studying it when older,

[Tolleshunt]

I think therapy for DD is an extremely good idea. She is in desperate need of it, and it will help her immensely.

If you arrange it, OP, it is further demonstration of your love and care for her, in stark contrast to her fathee's abusive manipulations.

Additionally, it will quickly become crystal to the therapist that she is being abused by her father. The therapist is obliged to report safeguarding concerns, which may well trigger SS intervention to reduce contact/ensure supervised contact only. At the least, it is grist to your mill should you need to go back to court. An independent witness to the abuse of your DD.

[Numptysod]

Why she so scared of him???

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

He takes her to watch him do his hobbies Just rubbing it in in my opinion. I've had coaches contact him, he just says he's desperate to see her so no.

[Planeticket]

He does sound a bit selfish. The only thing I can think is he might be upset with you because he thinks you're enrolling her in so many hobbies that interfere with his time so as to alienate him. This all sounds like he's upset with you.

[LittleDoritt]

I think you are going to have to talk to the leaders of her activities and see which ones are accommodating and which can't be because of the nature of the competitions/ performances. It's not fair to the rest of the team or the other performers to keep dropping out halfway through.

[topcat2014]

What exactly is the point of this "father" if he just deprives his daughter of activities..

[SlinkyDinkyDoo]

Erm, she's 11. He sounds like a bully and a cunt who YOU can't stand up to let alone a young girl. It's not her fault he's an arsehole. YABU.

[nanbread]

Firstly I think you should cut down on hobbies regardless. Why has she tried everything under the sun she's only 11? She doesn't need every moment of her life filled. And only wanting to get better at something to perform sounds like she's quite extrinsically motivated which may cause problems later in life (I speak from experience).

Second I'd sit down with her, present the problem and both brainstorm solutions together (stopping all hobbies could be one of them). What does she think might be an answer? Be open to all suggestions and write them all down. Then try the one(s) that you are both willing to consider.

[slipperywhensparticus]

Send her on the trip tell her daddy changed his mind go enjoy yourself tell him where to pick her up from on the day

[Oliversmumsarmy]

If your dd spoke up to a counsellor then I think this is the only way to go and maybe in time she will put herself first and recognise her df doesn’t want what is best for her.

I think she needs regular counselling or therapy sessions to help her find her voice and to recognise that she is being coercively controlled and emotionally abused and to grow into a woman who doesn’t then go on to get involved with abusive husbands and boyfriends (because atm that is where this is leading)

What is coming across is she would rather be severely upset and disappointed not being able to do things she wants to do than face her fathers wrath.

I would email everything but use something along the lines of:-

I have decided that from now on if dd has an activity on those days that you have custody of her I will email you with the relevant information.

If I haven’t received an email from you within 7 days (or whatever number of days you need) that you do not wish Dd to attend an activity I will take it as a confirmation that you are agreeing that Dd should go ahead with the activity.
This is to make clear there are no misunderstandings, as have occurred in the past.
From now on if you wish to veto dds activities that fall on your dates please put this in reply to my email notification.
We are more than willing to make up the time Dd spends with you if this you perceive eats into your personal time with dd.

If I find that there is any emotional manipulation after you have agreed or there has been presumed consent I will be going back to court for them to review your ability to care for dd and her emotional and educational needs.

I bring to your attention the court order which did say that you must facilitate any activities or parties that Dd has on the days where you have custody of her.

Then you can write saying

Dd has an activity on xxx on date between X o’clock to X o’clock
If I don’t receive an email from you to say that you veto this activity then I presume consent is given.

This way

1. He can’t change his mind.
   And
   
2. If Dd sees this more as a legal requirement that her df has agreed to the courts he has to facilitate her going to the activity it might then take the onus off her trying to do as her father wants as to stop her father having to go to court she can go to her activity with a clearer mind.
   
   IYSWIM. Don’t think I have explained number 2 well but maybe someone could word it better.
   
   Both dd and ds were very involved with drama groups growing up and I have seen this type of thing happening more than a few times and it is so sad to see how excited the children are to get a part in the show and all the rehearsals that go with it only for the nrp to veto the whole thing at the last minute.
   
   Seen more than one child sobbing their heart out when the mum has had to tell the teacher that their dc cannot take part in the show they had worked so hard for all year.
   
   I really feel for your dd but at 11 and in the middle of the FOG it is you who needs to step up and support her not punish her more for something that she isn’t emotionally mature enough to do.

[GirlcalledJack]

Obviously he is a selfish twat but quite honestly if your DD won’t say how important it is for her to do x,y,z then there really isn’t anything else you can do.
You absolutely should not be loosing out any money!

When your DD finds something she really loves then she will decide its more important to suffer her fathers wrath for a couple of days to do it.

[SofaSurfer20]

Why are you letting this happen?

[WhiteCat1704]

Maybe she actually wants to spend the time with her father...and prefers it to competing but is afraid to tell you. I would stop paying for hobbies.

[archersnlemonade]

What a bully. I think you need a radical rethink of how you deal with him...

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

Whst do you suggest I do SofaSurfer, that I haven't already tried?

WhiteCat DD comes to me asking to do things; with work and 3 other DC (one a baby and the others with SN) it would make my life a lot easier if she didn't do them but she genuinely thrives on them so I have encouraged her interests.

[Sitdownstandup]

What an arsewipe.

[DaiStation]

Well this sounds utterly shit and you have all my empathy.

Do you think she's old enough/mature enough to handle a frank 'boundaries' chat? You might have done this already, but going through the fact that when we love someone, we want them to thrive. She's wanting her dad to thrive by seeing her but he's not doing the same in return. That's an unfair relationship. Her dad does love her, but needs to understand that she's a full person with her own needs and interests that need cultivating so she can find her plave both now and as an adult: there is everything right with her telling him this.

Also, maybe digging a little further into her feelings: asking why is it so bad that he's upset? Why is this seemingly the worst thing that could happen for her? Sounds like she's scared of abandonment/rejection so this could be a good opportunity to talk about how relationships are supposed to be give and take, we all make each other upset sometimes but the point of family relationships is that you work through that upset and find a compromise because you care about each other - it's not about one person always getting what they want. And as a parent, he should not be making her feel scares of rejection or like she has to dance to his tune - it's his job to support her.

Then as soon as you're on your own, down 5 gins and do a fuck you dance in his general direction the twat.

[SmallFastPenguin]

I would try not to make her feel bad about it but just tell her she can only do hobbies or outings that will never fall on her dads weekend since he won't take her and its a waste of money to pay for something she can't do. But if there is a club that meets only in the week or is flexible about her turning up or not then she can do it.

[NWQM]

I know Helena that you have said you would replace the time but isn't it the case that he wont agree to that so if she did the activity she wouldn't see him?

[Oliversmumsarmy]

I don’t think it is any good bestowing sensible decisions and reactions on to an 11 year old who is showing all the signs of being as emotionally abused as any grown woman in an abusive and controlling relationship.

There are women who post on here who want to do things but know that ultimately their dhs will kick off and it is like walking on eggshells around him.

The advice is to leave and that he will never change. I don’t think I have ever seen someone being advised to give up and work round him.

Your dd so wants to do these activities but she isn’t allowed to because of the manipulation.

Whilst he protests that every moment he spends with her is precious and she has to give up her activities he isn’t giving up any activities he has planned.

How much of this precious time does he actually interact with her if he still does his hobbies and she is expected to watch or he is drinking with his friends.

Maybe ask your dd to actually take note of the times he spends with her when not drinking or doing hobbies or doing shopping and the times he is there but where she isn’t his number 1 priority.

It might open her eyes

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

He's never agreed to her doing anything so he's never been able to take up the replacement of time offer but there's no reason why he couldn't. The fact that he's completely inflexible and wants DD there for the designated alternate weekend only just says to me that he sees her a possession rather than an individual.

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

She is never ever his number one priority. He has a child with his partner who does an activity at weekends so they can never go out for the day on a Saturday as she doesn't finish until lunch time, then Sunday's are spent watching her father doing his hobby then entertaining her young cousins while he gets drunk with his brother.

She has said to me that she feels it's unfair that he and her sister can do hobbies on weekends but she can't but she would never say that to him.