To refuse to support DD in having hobbies anymore?

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

DD is 11 and is very sociable and outgoing. Since the age of 5 she's tried out about every extra curricular activity going. She's on the school team for every sport and loves competing in pretty much everything she can. She's also massively into drama and dance and would love to study drama at Uni.

Over the years, I've spent thousands of pounds and countless hours supporting her in all of her activities but now I'm considering refusing to do so any longer. The issue is her father - from whom I have been separated for many many years - does not support her in any activities. DD only sees him fortnightly but this has still managed to disrupt so many things for her.

For example, she took tap classes and after a year was picked to perform a solo in the dance schools annual show. She was beyond excited and was talking about it for weeks. When the show drew closer, her father said he didn't agree to her taking part (it fell on his weekend with her, I offered to swap/take and return her/him to come and watch) and she wouldn't tell him how much it meant to her, she missed it and then once she was home she was so upset - she then wouldn't return to the dance school as she thought she'd let the teacher down, and because she didn't see the point of improving if she could never perform.

Similar incidents have happened with several other activities; she'll take classes and adore them, get really good, be asked to perform or compete, be desperate to do so but then if it requires even minimal commitment on her weekrnd with her father, he'll say no and she won't stand up for herself. I have fought her corner with him for years but he won't back down, despite knowing how upset she gets, and she won't tell him she is desperate to take part.

Tonight I had to drag her 3 younger siblings to collect her from drama class at 7.45pm, they're all tired and she comes out absolutely buzzing because she's been picked for a main part in their performance. That's great, but for the last month they'll have rehearsals on Saturday mornings - which her father won't let her attend. I just feel like it's deja vu and there's no point putting me and her siblings through taxiing her around, not to mention paying out for the activities when they can never progress so she ultimately gives them up.

I've tried empowering her to speak up to him but she absolutely refuses. WIBU to say there's no point taking anything else up, or does that just make me as bad as him?

[Pinkbells]

And if he’s getting drunk while he’s supposed to be looking after her that’s bad! Are you making a diary of all these things?

[maddening]

Take it to court?

[Moanymoaner123]

You need to stand up for her. She is 11 years old, my ex couldn't stand up/say no to his father and he is a grown man. I wouldn't be facilitating contact with a man who actively ruins his child's enjoyment of life. He obviously isn't a nice man if she feels she can't ask for what she needs.

[TBDO]

He’s manipulating you.

I’d send her on the outbound course. It’s ridiculous to tell a child they can go and then withdraw them for no good reason.

Keep a record of all these incidents where he doesn’t put her first and let him take you to court. Reassure DD that the people want what is best for her, so she must tell them what she wants to do, not what she thinks her dad wants her to do.

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

I'm not angry with her, I'm angry for her. How do you propose I stand up for her more so than I have done already? If I stopped contact for things, she would have an absolute meltdown and wouldn't enjoy them anyway knowing her father hadn't agreed.

[Gibble1]

Have you spoken to the various activity organisers to let them know the issues? I had a cub who was in a similar position and his Mum spoke to me about it. I offered to email or phone the father and explain the situation but Mum didn’t want to inflame the situation. Cub was unable to gain the highest award due to the need to achieve certain things so I got creative and figured out a work around, ran it past the ADC Cubs who agreed it was a suitable compromise and then spoke to Mum. We made it happen so that the Cub didn’t miss out due to having a winker for a father.

[SkinnyPete]

The weekends that she has things planned that he says no to, deny contact and let her do them.

[Schmoozer]

She will have a meltdown if she goes against him, and goes on the trip. Yet going to her dads will be about watching him do his thing / get drunk ??
She sounds terrified of him
She needs your help
This is so sad

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

I agree with whoever said he does this to spite me, and also because he's lazy and selfish. She would be distraught at the idea of speaking to CAFCASS.

[Wallywobbles]

I'm afraid I'm probably going against the majority of posters.

I'm in France but we were in a very similar situation and while anyone who hasn't been through the legal system will say do this that or the other, legally it's not so simple. If you don't follow the rules you risk losing your kids. It doesn't matter if he doesn't either you have to tow the line 100%.

I explained to my kids that legally they were the only ones that could make a change. I was always totally honest with them. I didn't sugar coat stuff. You can only fight her corner so far, she has to do the rest Im afraid. So your job is to teach her to learn to spot bullshit. To think analytically. To know when she's subjected to FOG. To be strong and brave.

My DDs were 8&9 when they said enough.

My eldest DD (now 14) just read your opening post and she said that she doesn't have much sympathy for your DD. The consequences of her inaction are going to eternal disappointment.

Have a read of the FOG website and see if it rings any bells. If it does show your daughter.

[TBDO]

Missed the last update - he’s emotionally manipulating DD too.

She isn’t a pawn in his game. Be factual and firm - dad said you could go, we have paid, you wanted to go and therefore you can go. If dad wants to see you, we can arrange another time for him to have you.

If she gets worried about dad saying she can/can’t do stuff, then keep repeating the mantra that ‘we can arrange another time for dad to see you instead’. Offer him times by text or email. Keep comms straight and above board - no emotion from you.

[TheFormidableMrsC]

What a shit he is. I've got one of these so you have my sympathy. Obviously the court order only applies to you . Personally I would call his bluff and take it back to court. Why should she suffer? Why should you lose money? The only way to stand up to these bastards is take the hard line (about to do it myself). What he's doing is emotional abuse and control. He needs to be taught otherwise.

[HoneysuckIejasmine]

It sounds like she's being emotionally abused by him. I'd just start taking her to activities etc instead of his house, drop her off after etc. Let him take you to court if he wants.

[Namestheyareachangin]

Have you ever tried it? She might panic a bit at first, but for example the outbound week thing - do you really think she'd be in a state of meltdown the entire week? Or would she realise the sky hadn't fallen in, get stuck in and have s great time?

It depends on what you think is best for her. Do you think she's better off having these activities or not? If you do, you need to fight for her to do them - even if that means you're fighting her initially as well as her dad. You are her parent, to a degree it's your call.

Or if you're not comfortable with that, then yes take it to court. Give her the opportunity to respond to an independent arbitrator. If she renounces the hobbies of her own accord to keep in with her dad, that's incredibly sad but at least she won't feel like her own mum has given up on her, or taken something she loves away from her as s punishment for not choosing between the two of you.

[TBDO]

I get that you’re worried about her having a meltdown - but she needs you to be the firm one standing up for her. It’s too much responsibility for her otherwise. Of course she will be upset at annoying her dad by going - but that’s because he’s manipulative and has engineered this. He agreed to the trip, it’s been paid for, she needs to go.

She needs to see that things can be followed through - that its ok to feel upset - she will learn that this is dad making her feel guilty and will see through him soon enough.

[Namestheyareachangin]

PS I'm posting as a child of divorce here, not an amicable one. Feeling constantly on a knife edge is a horrible way for a CHD to live. The fear that by saying or doing the wrong thing you may make one of our parents angry is a lot more oppressive when you know from personal experience that if a parent isn't happy they can simply up and leave you; it forces little kids into a position of managing their parents' feelings, feelings they shouldn't have to worry about at that age. To live without any sense of safety or any belief in unconditional love is a violation of childhood. Your daughter is suffering; don't add to that suffering by turning on her.

[recklessgran]

This is a type of abuse OP can't you recognise that? DD is only 11 so you need to fight her corner although I completely understand why with 3 younger ones you are worn down by all this. At the very least please explain emotional abuse to your daughter otherwise she will grow up thinking it's acceptable for her to be manipulated in this way. I'm really sorry that you are in this position but you simply must get professional help regardless of what you think your daughter wants - she is a child and you owe it to her to sort this out once and for all.

[Tolleshunt]

If she is this scared of explaining to him that she really wants to do the activities, I would be really worried about sending her to him at all. He sounds abusive. He is clearly emotionally manipulative/controlling. I would be wondering if he was physically abusive too. Do you have any idea of that? Would she tell you if he was? Poor child

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

Knowing he hasn't agreed would make her meltdown at first, anxious and not enjoy it while she's there, angry with me for going against her father and apologetic and needy towards her father. He wins either way as far as I can see; only DD loses.

[ralphfromlordoftheflies]

I think that you need to own this battle on your DD's behalf, because she isn't capable of asserting herself and so she's losing out time after time. It makes me feel worried about how her boundaries with men will be in her adult life, as she's learning to make huge sacrifices to appease her greatest male role model now. So you need to show her that his attitude and behaviour is not acceptable, by telling him she is going on the outward bounds holiday. And that if he won't facilitate her hobbies on his time, you will.

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

I completely agree that he's emotionally abusive; he was to me, too. We have been to court and they didn't agree, they thought she was a child desperate to spend time with her adoring father

[MumUnderTheMoon]

She is 11 and I think it would be reasonable to sit her down and tell her that if she cannot tell her dad how important these things are to her so that she can attend then then you can't excuse paying for them any more. I also think you should be addressing the reason why she is scared to tell him what she wants. Is she frightened of him? Is she worried he'll feel rejected if she chooses to spend "their time" elsewhere? Also if he is breaking a court order than you should take it back to court. Surely cafcas are able to spot when a child is parent pleasing inspire of what they really want.

[GreenTulips]

I agree with the above!

Maybe you should invest in some counseling or confidence building skills

I think from just what you said any court will see a scared child

[GabsAlot]

hes bullying her-when are u going to stop this

u have to talk to someone about this shes shit scared of speaking up for herself-she needs supprt

[CheshireChat]

I mean this kindly as this isn't any of your fault, but you're not the one who will have to see him every week after going against him, he will very likely make her life he'll.

Perhaps tell her to choose whether she wants to take part on a casual basis, but no major commitments either financial or time wise or she has to talk to cafcass etc.