To refuse to support DD in having hobbies anymore?

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

DD is 11 and is very sociable and outgoing. Since the age of 5 she's tried out about every extra curricular activity going. She's on the school team for every sport and loves competing in pretty much everything she can. She's also massively into drama and dance and would love to study drama at Uni.

Over the years, I've spent thousands of pounds and countless hours supporting her in all of her activities but now I'm considering refusing to do so any longer. The issue is her father - from whom I have been separated for many many years - does not support her in any activities. DD only sees him fortnightly but this has still managed to disrupt so many things for her.

For example, she took tap classes and after a year was picked to perform a solo in the dance schools annual show. She was beyond excited and was talking about it for weeks. When the show drew closer, her father said he didn't agree to her taking part (it fell on his weekend with her, I offered to swap/take and return her/him to come and watch) and she wouldn't tell him how much it meant to her, she missed it and then once she was home she was so upset - she then wouldn't return to the dance school as she thought she'd let the teacher down, and because she didn't see the point of improving if she could never perform.

Similar incidents have happened with several other activities; she'll take classes and adore them, get really good, be asked to perform or compete, be desperate to do so but then if it requires even minimal commitment on her weekrnd with her father, he'll say no and she won't stand up for herself. I have fought her corner with him for years but he won't back down, despite knowing how upset she gets, and she won't tell him she is desperate to take part.

Tonight I had to drag her 3 younger siblings to collect her from drama class at 7.45pm, they're all tired and she comes out absolutely buzzing because she's been picked for a main part in their performance. That's great, but for the last month they'll have rehearsals on Saturday mornings - which her father won't let her attend. I just feel like it's deja vu and there's no point putting me and her siblings through taxiing her around, not to mention paying out for the activities when they can never progress so she ultimately gives them up.

I've tried empowering her to speak up to him but she absolutely refuses. WIBU to say there's no point taking anything else up, or does that just make me as bad as him?

[Micah]

Take it back to court ffs - that's how you stand up for her. Why aren't you? I assume you can prove everything

Does it need to go back to court? I’d do it the other way, take her anyway and let him fork out for solicitors and court.

Only issue is the dd doesn’t want to go against her dad.

[diddl]

"Honestly your dear daughter sounds scared of her shitty father."

That's the thing isn't it?

She's probably scared of either being shouted at for going or not able to handle the guilt trip of didn't she want to see him.

But until she realises that that's all on him, it's pretty awful for her to cope with.

[LetsSplashMummy]

It's about controlling you are your DD, would he be open about his laziness to other people, or does he pretend to be really hands on?

I coach a kids team, if one of our players was in this situation, I would be happy to email the dad directly and say "DD has a place on the team, amazing, she works so hard. This means she must be at practice... can you bring her each week or would you like us to help sort out a lift share?"

He might have, wrongly, decided the things you take her to are yours in some way, so wants to spite you. He might just be nicer to strangers, but I'd talk to the theatre leader. Most volunteers are nice people, who would want to help and obviously rate your DD highly.

[bengalcat]

I would go through a solicitor/court for this one . As others have said whilst we understand your frustration don’t stop her doing what she loves she doesn’t need two ‘ shit parents ‘ . She’s 11 so you have to fight her corner for her . Presume you get notice of dance events so if your daughter is O’Shea to take part then inform him in person/ email ( so you have a paper trail and leave your halo intact ) and offer alternative times to make up seeing her etc .
I had this with mine many years ago - he’d pick her up from mine generally alternate Sundays ( if he has wasn’t away or whatever ) - she then wanted to go horse riding on Sunday’s first thing in the morning which meant him picking her up from the stables 1/2 hr later than from my place ( which was about 15 mins from the stables and at the bottom of the A3 which was on his only route from his place to mine )

[m00rfarm]

My son had a similar issue with things falling on the wrong weekends. With his dad he played for the local football team, with me he played for his school and county hockey team. Somehow (by luck more than judgement) mostly he was in the right place at the right time. But, if not, then I went to football and his dad went to hockey. And we lived about an hour apart, so it was not exactly local. But my son was not afraid of either of us, so was able to tell us if he REALLY wanted to do something on the "wrong" weekend. If he had kept quiet, then neither of us would be any the wiser. She needs to find her voice.

[Justonemorepancake]

All these people saying OP needs to fight for her DD and take it to court - that only works if DD is on-side. If she takes it to court and DD continuously says "I don't mind giving up x, y and z" to please her father, then court is a massive waste of time, money and stress. Dd does need to start saying she wants her df to support her in her activities. It's a big ask at 11, I know, but there it is. So I don't blame the OP for wanting to throw in the towel with regards to ferrying her around and forking out when she knows it'll get jacked in soon enough, thanks to her ex's non-compliance. My approach would be counselling for DD to try and get her to gain confidence and assertiveness and make her understand that there's no point continuining activities until she's at a point where she's passionate enough about them to say "dad, I would like to rehearse on a Saturday and I'd love you to support me"

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

Precisely, whenever we've been to court before, DD will say whatever to please her father and he will say I'm trying to put barriers in the way of contact which DD essentially backs up. I've already tried counselling. She spoke up to the counsellor because she knew it couldn't be shared with her father but obviously that information can't be shared with the court.

[Pernickity1]

Oh OP this is wildly frustrating to read so I can’t even imagine how it feels for you.

Your hands are tied really aren’t they? I know you’re so very frustrated but I wouldn’t give up on her though. Let her continue her hobbies and keep encouraging her to assert herself. Stay steady and constant so when she finally grows to have the confidence to tell her useless father to fuck off then she’ll know she has to to depend upon.

I feel murderous towards your ex for putting a little child in this position.

for you.

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

He won't communicate with me in writing at all. He's only response via message or in person is "it's my time with DD so I decide"

He has no shame and would tell organisers no and play the alienated father card, even though he chooses to see her so little.

Sometimes not being able to ever do things at a weekend renders her going pointless
For example, she was really good at a particular sport and picked for their squad team but because some training fell on occasional weekends, and all events did she could not only not do those - she couldn't do the sport any longer at all because she couldn't progress any more than she already had in the normal classes.

[GreenFingersWouldBeHandy]

No, sadly she won't tell him via any means.

She's 11!

YOU need to tell him. And you need to tell him he won't be seeing her until after she's done that activity for that day. Or pick her up early. You need to be the parent here, not push it onto her.

[Pernickity1]

I would most definitely insist she goes on the trip though. Does she know her father said no? I wouldn’t tell her if not. Does he tell her no to her face or is it you he tells?

I wouldn’t care if she threw a meltdown in this case as you have already paid for it and she should see that the world doesn’t fall in when her dad is “defied”.

Do you have it in writing that he previously agreed? (Text message etc?) don’t mention the trip to him again just send her and if he protests just just send his own text message back to him.

Still can’t believe you have to even take these measures...What an absolute prick.

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

Yes he tells her no and will call her and guilt trip her if he thinks she may be wavering. If I remove her phone so he can't do this then I'm playing into his hands as it does look like I'm alienating him.

[SnowWhitesRestingBitchFace]

Is no one here reading the what had actually been written? Yes it may seem like you need to be the adult but I have an 11 year old who is scared of his father (who the courts also back no matter what bloody happens including an accident that led to a broken leg when my DS was barely 2 years old!) And it's not as simple as that.

Have a frank conversation with DD. Don't bad mouth her father but be factual about your position. She's old enough now to understand.

[cardibach]

There’s lots of advice here about how to deal with t(e long term issue, OP. Short term, though, you May have missed a PP suggesting you just tell the organiser and they will probably work round. I’m a teacher and I direct school productions. We usually have about 4 weekend rehearsals in the run up and I have often had students who can’t attend half of those due to contact arrangements. I’ve always worked round. If the child is good and otherwise committed (learning lines, catching up quickly etc) there will be flexibility. Don’t just throw your hands up and say the whole thing is impossible before having a conversation with the organiser.

[OliviaBenson]

This is awful op and it's setting her up for future relationships with abusive controlling men.

Can you get the school and others to support your claims? Could you get the counsellor she saw originally involved to give evidence before a judge?

I think you need to also be frank with your daughter and try build her self esteem up.

Keep records and remind him of the court order- this will help with claims of alienation as you are simply upholding what is written down.

I would also say just before the trip that she is allowed to go. You could block her dad on her phone so she doesn't know. Make a clear record of why you had to do that. Is it an educational trip?

[NWQM]

I completely agree that you need a frank conversation with your DD.
For different reasons we've had to do this a few times with our two even when they are younger.

Whilst I would be fuming at your ex kids cant also always do what they want. For a start off events clash. I'd be saying that you and she need talk to each activity coach / leader and see if there is any point her carrying on. Training for sports for instance is a good activity regardless of progressing into a team but you need to decide what your tolerance for this. Their activities are expensive and it's perfectly fine - necessary really - that as they got older you review.

There are lots of activities whereby participation at weekends or at least very optional. She needs to pick those.

Children have to make choices about activities for lots of reasons. My son would love to do horse riding but we just cant afford it unless he gives up everything else. He doesn't want to do that. Your daughter doesn't want to risk missing time with her Dad. Totally understandable and shes in a difficult position but actually its still a life lesson that she needs to understand.

Work it through with her. Don't bad mouth Dad but dont apologise for him either. She only has every other weekend free. That's her reality. You'll be flexible but Dad wont.

[NellieEllie]

You take her to the activity. It is for him to go to court about you blocking access - not for you to go to court to ask for “permission”. Some children find it impossible to do something that they feel would upset the non resident parent. It is putting her under too much pressure to “stand up to him”. The adults are the ones in charge. If she genuinely want to go to a show or competition, you take her. Make the decision. Keep careful written records of everything. Give notice of swapping the weekends, give a choice if possible. Tell him she is going. If he at any point puts pressure on her to say she doesn’t want to do it, you need to consider stopping or reducing contact. At that point you need to go to a family solicitor.
I used to work in scenarios re contact and residence disputes. Disagreements like this, and where adults force a child to stick up for themselves against a parent they love can cause serious psychological consequences for a child.
You cannot stop her doing activities because her DF is preventing her from achieving in them. He is impeding her development and opportunities. Nothing will get this time back for her.

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

NWQM it isn't that she doesn't want to risk missing her time with him; her time isn't at risk because I would happily replace it - even though I shouldn't have to as he should be happy to an encourage her participation as she loves it so much. She's willing to miss things because she worries about upsetting him, which is entirely different and not something a child should have to worry about.

It's not as simple as just taking her to whatever it is. She would be hysterical knowing her father would be affected and wouldn't enjoy whatever it is, most likely she would refuse to go.

[ukgift2016]

It's not as simple as just taking her to whatever it is. She would be hysterical knowing her father would be affected and wouldn't enjoy whatever it is, most likely she would refuse to go.

Then you must stop the hobbies. If you are paying out money and she is letting other people down continuously then something must be done.

[OliviaBenson]

The fact that she would be hysterical is demonstrable of the emotional abuse her father is doing to her.

Frank chat with her about it- you need to help give her the strength to say no to him.

It might also be good that the teachers witness her reactions as it will help with your case.

[woolduvet]

I'd be talking about the future.
At the moment you don't want to miss out on going to see your dad so we're not signing up to anything that will conflict with that.
In the future you might decide that you want to do an activity on Saturday morning and go and see your dad after, that's something you need to decide and tell your dad about. It does not mean that you don't love him, just that you're really excited about doing x.

[Armadillostoes]

YABVU-she is 11 years old. You need to be her advocate and explain to third parties, including in court, her reluctance to speak up because she us desperate to please her DF. This mess is not her fault, it is the responsibility of the adults around her.

[BarbarianMum]

If your dd would truly hysterical at the thought of putting her own needs/wants above her father's then she is seriously damaged. Surely you can see that? Suggest you arrange some heavyweight therapy for her because she's being set up to be very vulnerable and at extreme risk of falling victim to abusive relationships later in life.
sorry for you. Sorrier for her.

[GreenFingersWouldBeHandy]

DD will say whatever to please her father and he will say I'm trying to put barriers in the way of contact which DD essentially backs up

You need to teach her to have the confidence to stop doing this. She is shooting herself in the foot.

If she becomes upset because she can't do her activities, and she gets upset worrying about speaking out against her father, you can't win. She does sound scared of him and that's awful Really tough situation.

[havingtochangeusernameagain]

It's not as simple as just taking her to whatever it is. She would be hysterical knowing her father would be affected and wouldn't enjoy whatever it is, most likely she would refuse to go

Wow. She really has been brought up to be a man-pleaser hasn't she? She needs a big dose of selfishness training!

I can never quite understand all this politicking between divorced couples and "his" days and "her" days. If he usually sees her on a Saturday, and the rehearsal is on a Saturday, why can't he see her on a Sunday? If she's going on a trip, and one of the days is one of his days, why can't he have a different day? I just don't get it I'm afraid, just as I can never understand this thing about not being able to do something because the other parent won't have their child on a different weekend. It's your child, look after him/her! If the parents were still together they'd have to look after the child if the other parent were busy.

Has she not noticed that he continues his hobbies around her? Why does she think this is ok but not vice versa?