Dating Etiquette AIBU?

[flipertyflop]

A bit of womanly wisdom needed for this one please, I haven't dated for years.
My colleague went on a first date last night. It didn't go well.
He held the door open for his date who sighed and said "that is a bit cringey". They waited for a table to become available and when they were shown to the table he said "after you" to which she rolled her eyes. Next, when they were sat at the table and the waiter came over and asked if they were ready to order, he gestured to his date and said "Ladies first". All in all very polite and inoffensive, or so I would have thought? She called him a dick!
Personally I would have got up and left at that point but being the gent he is, he persisted with the date.
She asked to go dutch at the beginning of the meal but when it came to it she was more than happy to let him pay the lot.
I'm all for equality but surely someone holding a door or letting you order first isn't a massive faux pas? Is that not just manners, whether it comes from the man or the woman? AIBU?

“I couldn't give a shit if a man pays for my dinner on a date, I'm more worried about not being raped on the way home/being paid less than my male colleagues/being passed over for promotion etc etc”

I think you’re conflating two very different issues there.

A man opening a door for you because you’re a woman is no more likely to be a rapist, pass you over for promotion or pay you less. That’s quite a leap you’ve taken there.

Dating is not about enacting the Equal Opportunities Act as (hopefully) found in the workplace. It’s about a romantic / emotional / sexual dynamic. This is what a lot of women don’t get - and that’s fine obviously - but there’s no need to mock the way some women prefer to relate to men and vice versa. I personally wouldn’t date a man who wasn’t a gent because men who don’t differentiate their behaviour towards women and are happy to treat you like one of their mates do nothing for me. I very much doubt I’m the only one.

If I sound a bit too much on “her side”, it’s because I’ve had my fair share of OLD first dates, and there very much is a type of man who is just all over you with “I’m such a gentlemen” behaviour in a way that’s quite claustrophobic.

Worst are the ones that say “see - chivalry is not dead!”

That’s why I’m interested in her view of how the evening went.

I’ve had men be quite aggressive about “I must pay, otherwise I won’t feel like a gentleman” - in a way that’s intimidating, and all about them, not caring about my comfort.

I can see that she’d have let him pick up the bill if she really just wanted to get out of there, and felt (or experienced) one of those “no I insist that my decision of payment is more important than yours” prolonged arguments coming on!

why did he not look at the bill and say “that’s £20 each”?

Why didn’t she? You can’t have it all ways.

Yes, she could have done.
But we’re missing her view of events here.
From what OP has said, it sounds unlikely that she just sat there silently eyeballing him til he paid.

In recent years, I’ve noticed the bill being placed neutrally on the table. But I’ve also had it handed to the man I’m with, time and time again. Never to me. Even when I hand over my card, the card machine has then been absent mindedly passed to my husband. That’s NEVER happened the other way.

We all come at this from our own experiences. I’ve had this more than once:

• how much is my half?
• I’ll pay
• that’s kind of you to offer, but I’d rather split it
• I’ll pay, cos I’m a gentleman
• I’m sure you are, but I’d rather pay my half
• but I want to treat you, it’s not right for a lady to pay (seriously - I’m 40s and have had this)
• thank you, but I’m not comfortable with that, I want to pay half

It’s fucking awkward! And as I said above, it’s actually the opposite of gentlemanly to enforce your preferences against the comfort of your date.

When I was regularly OLD, one offer to pay was lovely. One challenge back when I said “I’d rather split” was tolerable. More than one - and I wrote them off, completely. They just showed that they cared more about preserving their self perception (or in some cases showing off or thinking it would get them a shag!) than they did about my feelings.

It gets VERY dull arguing over bills.

She might have just been a bitch! But I’m my experience it’s not as simple as saying “what do I owe?”

@Sol44 I'm not conflating two issues, I'm saying what is important to me and what bothers me.

I asked why it is important to you that men hold doors open etc I don't get it, that's why I asked.

How did he meet her, that neither of them knew enough about each other for this situation to have occurred?

He sounds lovely and she sounds like a bitch.

He had a lucky escape! (assuming he has told you the whole story...)

If what he says is true, she behaved appallingly. (His own behaviour would have made me roll my eyes too, but only in my imagination.) In his place I would have simply apologised and said 'I can see this isn't going to work out--perhaps we should just call it a night?' before any food was ordered.

It would be nice though to have had an observer's account of this all. What he told you sounds over-egged to me: Her behaviour sounds like the stereotyped sort that men who have trouble with feminism like to cite and that she called him a dick sounds OTT to me. Possibly she was indeed that unpleasant but I'd be looking askance at your friend's account.

She sounds like a tool.

I do love Mumsnet, taking everything as gospel when a man is in the wrong but, calls to hear her side of the story, when it appears that a female is in the wrong.... and quite right too!