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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Dating Etiquette AIBU?

85 replies

flipertyflop · 19/03/2019 12:50

A bit of womanly wisdom needed for this one please, I haven't dated for years.
My colleague went on a first date last night. It didn't go well.
He held the door open for his date who sighed and said "that is a bit cringey". They waited for a table to become available and when they were shown to the table he said "after you" to which she rolled her eyes. Next, when they were sat at the table and the waiter came over and asked if they were ready to order, he gestured to his date and said "Ladies first". All in all very polite and inoffensive, or so I would have thought? She called him a dick!
Personally I would have got up and left at that point but being the gent he is, he persisted with the date.
She asked to go dutch at the beginning of the meal but when it came to it she was more than happy to let him pay the lot.
I'm all for equality but surely someone holding a door or letting you order first isn't a massive faux pas? Is that not just manners, whether it comes from the man or the woman? AIBU?

OP posts:

DarlingNikita · 19/03/2019 13:42

Apart from being rude she's a hypocrite, isn't she?

I don't disagree with bingo above though, in that he might have taken the hint and laid off the gentleman stuff a bit after her 'cringey' comment. I do also think 'Ladies first' is a bit DelBoy ('mais oui, mais oui!'), although holding the door open and saying "after you" are both perfectly innocuous.

But anyway, as stated, the not going Dutch thing is hypocritical and greedy and he shouldn't bother with her again.

dworky · 19/03/2019 13:44

I would find it cringey also, I'm afraid. I cannot help but be suspicious of men who insist, despite protestation, on treating women as 'little ladies'.

Katiepoes · 19/03/2019 13:48

It depends a bit - I have some colleagues that are huge on door holding and the whole 'ladies first thing', to the point that they frequently get in the way and make things awkward. It's not always polite and really is outdated - you see these guys doing a strange little step to get ahead and around you to press lift butttons and open doors so you find your self slowing down and even stepping around them to avoid a clash, it's daft.

Having said that his date did sound unpleasant, she really should have paid her way after all that and kept her eye rolling until home.

Katiepoes · 19/03/2019 13:49

Oh also - unless a woman is actually there before you Norniron insisting they are served first is not polite it's patronising.

thedisorganisedmum · 19/03/2019 13:49

She could have at least be polite, she wasn't.

She is clearly an idiot with issues and a chip on her shoulder, she'll be better off going clubbing and meeting some random guy there.

I love people being polite, and on a date would expect someone to treat me like this, a date, not his mate! He sounds lovely.

theonetowalkinthesun · 19/03/2019 13:50

Obviously you've heard this from his side, so it would be interesting to hear it from hers.

Just as an alternative view to some PPs, if a date held a door open for me and made it obvious that it was purely because I was a woman, I would have also felt a bit uncomfortable from the off, but not did anything. If he then went to pull my chair out for me, I would've felt even more uncomfortable. If he then said 'ladies first', especially when I was probably visibly uncomfortable from the first two (how did he not notice that she clearly didn't like this kind of thing?), I would have written the date off in my mind there and then as someone who isn't meant for me. And clearly I'm not meant for him either

Wouldn't have called him a dick unless there is something he did or said that he hadn't mentioned. But wouldn't have enjoyed those things, no.

Horsemenoftheaclopalypse · 19/03/2019 13:51

She sounds unpleasant and it reads as though she had the hump before the date even started...

Everanewbie · 19/03/2019 13:53

Well as the old story says about the chivalrous man shot down by a feminist: I didn't hold the door because you were a lady, it was because I am a gentleman. Tips his hat and moves on.

Musicaltheatremum · 19/03/2019 13:59

My boyfriend, 6 months on still gets the door for me and takes my weekend bag when we are away. He does it because he is a gentleman. He holds the door for all people, not just women. He is just very polite and thoughtful. I'm a very independent woman and successful career wise but mutual respect which is what this is costs nothing.

BeanTownNancy · 19/03/2019 14:01

She sounds like a knob. He sounds like he was just trying to be considerate - I hold doors open for people and say "after you" to stop the awkwardness of both of us starting to move and crashing into each other. I've even said "ladies first" before - to my husband's brother, for a laugh. But then I'm not someone who is always looking for something to get offended about...

nornironrock · 19/03/2019 14:04

Katiepoes, my experience is that quite often at bars, the staff will preferentially serve men before women when they aren't sure who's first. I would therefore make sure the lady concerned is served before me. I'd also do the same for a bloke. I guess it was a poorly chosen example - typing as I was thinking.

PBo83 · 19/03/2019 14:10

I appreciate that some women don't appreciate 'traditional' gentlemanly behaviour and chivalry (personally I think many more would miss it if it was gone for good).

However, there was no reason for this woman to be so rude. Maybe they weren't compatible (including their ideas on such behaviours) but the right thing to do would be to have seen the date out in a polite manner, split the bill and then politely rejected any suggestion of a second date.

Massive chip on the shoulder methinks

Magenta82 · 19/03/2019 14:11

I agree with @theonetowalkinthesun if he kept doing that kind of thing when she had made it clear that she didn't like it then he cared more about his self image as a "gentleman" than her comfort.

Politeness is making people comfortable, if what you are doing in the name of politeness is making someone uncomfortable and you keep doing it after they say so then you are no longer being polite.

Namechangeforthiscancershit · 19/03/2019 14:17

She does sound rude, but I hate all that "gentlemanly" crap and when she said that him holding the door for her was cringey I'm not sure why he kept going with it all.

And ladies first? Who says that (other that Del Boy as mentioned above )

fotheringhay · 19/03/2019 14:27

I also hate all that 'gentlemanly' crap and the implications it carries about women. I'd cringe like mad internally and not seen him again, but be polite.

PBo83 · 19/03/2019 14:28

She does sound rude, but I hate all that "gentlemanly" crap and when she said that him holding the door for her was cringey I'm not sure why he kept going with it all.

Probably because that's the way he is, bought up to be a gentleman and behave in a certain way. I don't doubt that some women won't like it and that's fair enough but if that's 'him' then changing his behaviour to appease a first date would be pointless as they're clearly not compatible.

And ladies first? Who says that

A substantial number of people in my experience.

Namechangeforthiscancershit · 19/03/2019 14:32

changing his behaviour to appease a first date would be pointless as they're clearly not compatible

Agreed, but so was continuing with the date!

JacquesHammer · 19/03/2019 14:32

I don't doubt that some women won't like it and that's fair enough but if that's 'him' then changing his behaviour to appease a first date would be pointless as they're clearly not compatible

Yeah, but if he’s not willing to change his behaviour that clearly makes her uncomfortable, he can hardly then complain about her being rude!

Doesn’t common courtesy dictate if you’re making someone uncomfortable with your behaviour you modify it, whatever the circumstances in which you meet.

OfficeSlave · 19/03/2019 14:34

Magenta82 yes spot on with your whole post! She sounds like she dealt with it very rudely, but he still carried on with it. He doesn't have to change who he is, but she hinted (badly) she was uncomfortable with it and he didn't stop.

This ladies first stuff can come across as smarmy and smothering, ive experienced it. Even if its a nice guy being genuine, a woman is within her rights to not feel comfortable and not want this treatment. Its not gentlemanly to many. Its coddling, being treated like a fragile baby, princess treatment. There are so many better ways you can show a woman respect that dont involve irrelevant and inconsequential things like doors and chairs.

As we dont know your friend we can't know how he is or how it looked to her. Both parties would have been better off cutting it short obviously. I'm shocked neither of them did considering!

strivingtosucceed · 19/03/2019 14:37

I'd consider myself a feminist, but if a man wants to hold open doors and bring out my chair for me he can be my guest. There's something so thrilling about being pampered 'because I have a vagina'.

I get that this puts some women off, but why not just tell the bloke when he starts off that you're not really into 'chivalry' so he can act accordingly.

PBo83 · 19/03/2019 14:38

Yeah, but if he’s not willing to change his behaviour that clearly makes her uncomfortable, he can hardly then complain about her being rude!

Yes but he wasn't being rude, she was. She may not appreciate his 'chivalry' but it was well-intended, her rudeness on the other hand, wasn't.

JacquesHammer · 19/03/2019 14:40

She may not appreciate his 'chivalry' but it was well-intended, her rudeness on the other hand, wasn't

Well-intended after she had already objected? I don’t agree. I mean it’s not hard to not say “ladies first”...

FrustratedTeddyLamp · 19/03/2019 14:56

Surely saying something is cringey does not mean necessarily mean that you dont like it. I LOVE watching cringey stuff on TV ( romcoms that a lot of women love are 100% cringe), or theres moments in my life that i found cringey but look back on it fondly.

Also, just finding one thing cringey doesnt mean everything will be seen as cringey, she obviously wasnt offended at him paying for the " gentlemanly and chivalrous crap" of him paying for the meal.

Magenta82 · 19/03/2019 14:56

She may not appreciate his 'chivalry' but it was well-intended, her rudeness on the other hand, wasn't

Benevolent sexism is usually well intentioned, it is still sexist.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 19/03/2019 14:59

She was a rude cow.

And I would not be paying anything for someone who called me a 'dick'.

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