To be angry and distressed at the amount of harassment my fourteen year old daughter faces?

[Saggingninja]

A small sample. She's been harassed on a bus by a man in his thirties when she was in her school uniform. Nobody intervened. She was followed slowly down a street by a man in a car, but when she turned to take a photo of his licence plate, he drove off. She was asked for a 'date' by a man who was 'in his fifties'. When she pointed out she was only fourteen he smiled and said 'he didn't mind.' And yesterday on the train with some friends, she noticed this man filming them. When she turned to face him, he stopped and moved away.

My daughter is confident and I've told her not to be afraid of telling anyone harassing her to fuck off or to loudly remind them that she's underage. I put up with so much crap when I was a teenager out of fear of being rude. But I'm so angry and distressed that this happens so often. Nothing has changed has it?

This affected my teenage years greatly. At 12 years old I had waist length blonde hair and 30F boobs
I got whistles and shouted at every day by grown men

We had builders in school who asked me out

I went out to a show with my mum and her friend and a man in his 30's was very inappropriate, he was with his girlfriend who attacked me because of it

All of this made me cut my hair short, dye it dark and I only ever wore minimiser bras and high neck tops to try and disguise myself

But then at 15 I was angry and took great pleasure in calling these pathetic perverts out. One neighbour exposed himself to me one day as I walked home from school - I marched across the road and banged on his door and shouted for all to hear - he was arrested and charged

Teach your girls to challenge these perverts, it is so sad that this is still happening to young girls.

My DS’s 20 year old girlfriend touched up by an older man in a bar when she was in a mixed group of ten. When DS challenged him he denied it and got aggressive before ending up in a fight with DS and throwing the girlfriend on the floor. DS and the other man were arrested and DS spent the night in a cell. After further viewing the CCTV DS was released and no charges will be brought against him. The police have put the case to the CPS for sexual assault by the other bloke based on cctv footage.

The other bloke it turned out is 57 years old with grown up sons. He is 15 years older than DSs girlfriends dad and was on a Christmas piss up with his mates of the same age.

DS spent Christmas in hospital due to the beating up he got and had to have an operation.

This is what happens when you stand up for women being abused.

I doubt the CPS will consider it in the public’s interest to charge the dirty old bastard. It would also be really bad if he had been a younger bloke but for ab57 year old to think it’s ok to touch up a twenty year old just made me puke.

I've had men leering at my then 13 and 15 year old DDs. I have perfected the death stare over the years, but it made me feel physically sick. They weren't even discreet, and one guy must have been well into his 50s.

It makes me so angry that instant access to porn has made these perverts think that every teenage girl is "up for it".

I am so glad to read of all the girls telling men to fuck off etc

Please remember though that sometimes they don't back off and again it's hard to tell which is which

I was "fiesty" and had stuff thrown at me, was spat at, followed by cars, followed on foot by a man shouting, probably more, because I didn't react how they would have wanted.

Not saying to no say fuck off or whatever but just, it doesn't always work out so well.

In this situation I always felt v powerless becasue I couldn't actually make them do anything, what with me being a slightly built girl and them being an adult man.

It's shit. Why does society expect 7 stone 5' girls to be able to "handle" sexually aggressive men twice their size?

JaneEyre they thought that in the 80s.

The porn is produced to mens tastes.

In our day we had 16yo sam fox on page 3 and men openly ogling her on the bus with schoolgirls sitting all around.

I put up with so much crap when I was a teenager out of fear of being rude.

Most of us over a certain age did. I am glad your DD is growing up to be assertive, to know when a man is being inappropriate and to call him out on it publicly. Well done her.

Things seemed to get better for a decade or two, but now they seem to be getting worse again.

Lying - I think you are totally misunderstadning my posts, maybe I am not expressing myself well.

Men ARE fucking foul, anyone who disagrees are usually male, or haven't been unfortunate enough to experience sexual harassment unluckily from the age of 10 up for me, and my daughters experienced it from 12 onwards. Countless times. A huge portion of men.

If I am, MeAgain, then I apologise to you.

" It’s fucking outrageous and it’s about time men stood up for their sex and called it out. "

They aren't interested - if they were, it would already have happened.

Yes yes yes, it's not all men, but it is ALL women.

And while it continues to be all women, I will continue to complain about men.

Sadie

the ones who say that it's out of line on a thread like this to say sometihng like all men are foul

you can bet they are the sort to say
Well,
Are you sure you didn't mishear what he said?
I don't think he meant it like that.
He was only trying to be friendly!
I expect he'd be upset if he knew that he had scared you, I'm sure he didn't mean to do that
Some men are clumsy with words, he was just being friendly!
Well, you did know that groups of blokes hangs around there, why didn't you walk another way

etc etc

Why do some men feel so entitled to treat girls/women this way?

Because no-one teaches them not to, including their mothers. Unfortunately some people see it as an inevitable part of having a penis. They just can't help themselves, poor things. There is a horrible sort of entitlement to it. Even if they know they don't stand a chance, or intend to take it further, especially if they are grown men and the girl is a teenager, there still seems to be a perverse pleasure in making her feel intimidated and embarrassed and when she complains she's told she should be flattered and it's all in good natured fun.

I have no doubt that some would take it further though, if they thought they could get away with it.

YANBU

It's a huge worry for me with a 13 year old DD.

I had large breast in primary - and that's when it started for me and yes I very much felt blamed for unwanted attention.

DD has thankfully hit puberty later than me - so she's a little older and the culture round here is more friendly and less agressive more polite than where I grew up - but it's still going to be an issue for her at some point.

It is disgusting. I'm confident my ds wouldn't do it, I've talked to him in detail about how to treat people with respect, with examples (he is a young teen). It's only a very small minority of my friends who have had this conversation with their sons. All the men who do this have parents and there is too much 'boys will be boys' attitude and facilitating entitled behaviour from males from a young age. Society's general sexism (females in caring professions/sahp/wifework and males in powerful jobs) that is still very prevelent in many boy's lives from a young age doesn't help.

whoops

of course PP didn't say all men are foul - had NAMALT in my head when I wrote it!

She said men are foul

Which in the context of this thread is true

Men as a group, when you are a girl or young woman, are foul. It is not just the odd one or 2, it is loads. Every other bloke on the high street gave men the eyeball once over my body from when I was about 12. This is when a lot of issues start for girls - when how we are treated changes, from little kids to sex objects. And we notice, of course we do. And it effects us in different ways, some get angry, some think well it's going to happen and there's nothing I can do so I'll pretend it's fine, some just want to hide away. All the issues around MHPs with girls, and with suddenly losing confidence at puberty (while boys continues on upwards trajectory apparently) - why is it never questioned how much of it is down to the fact that we can't even walk down the fuckign street without having to beon alter that some random is going to be weird at us, or worse.

It's rubbish.

My dm refused to buy me a new brownie uniform in my last six months as a Brownie. I'd shot up and the dress was mini in the extreme. We were abroad as df was in the military and I still remember the humiliation of standing in a base coffee shop with my back to a bunch of squaddies listening to them talking about my legs and what I could be made to do with them. Not one single adult said anything in my defense.

Df's squadron referred to me as jailbait and Lolita. No one raised an eyebrow or complained. Every Christmas at the squadron party "Santa" (always a pilot because instead of arriving in a sleigh, they'd land their plane) always wanted me to sit on his knee.

As a teenager, the guy trying to sell my dm a vacuum of some sort suggested something indecent in the garage.

I could go on and on.

If the man filming your daughter is regularly on the same train, I would suggest telling the police. It sounds as if he may be deliberately travelling at the time when teenagers are going home from school.

A friend who works in a school was telling my about a child who was fostered and had to travel some way from her foster parents' home. They couldn't understand why she was always hanging around in the library at the end of the day given that she wasn't a reader and seemed essentially to be wasting time. They found out that it was because she didn't want to go home at her normal time because there was always a group of men hanging around the station waiting for schoolgirls and propositioning them. The school alerted the police who, happily, put a lot of resources into sorting it out and things have much improved - but no-one is under any illusions that the men won't be back.

Bloody hell I have teenage nieces and they don't get subjected to anything near as bad as that (they do complain aboutvthe odd beep or comment which is bad enough). That sounds awful for your DD.

" It’s fucking outrageous and it’s about time men stood up for their sex and called it out. "

They aren't interested - if they were, it would already have happened.

Hmmm.....Interesting.

That reminds of a thread the other day where a Muslim was saying 'why do white people hold all Muslims accountable for Islamic terror and why should we have to apologise for them? We are constantly told that we, as Muslims, don't do enough to make our feelings clear on the matter and that we should collectively make a stand against extremists to prove that we don't secretly share their ideology.' Or words to that effect.

Same argument from where I'm sitting. Most men don't do this and most men will call it out when they see it, I believe.

Incredibly
No, he is a lot of things, but not a paedophile. Unless, of course, in the highly unlikely situation that the 15 year old hadn’t yet hit puberty.
I think the definition of a paedophile is simply someone sexually attracted to children. 15 is still a child, and he was told that, so it wasn't a question of 'sorry, I thought you were older'. This is probably how these disgusting people explain away their own behaviour. It is wrong!

It is not just the odd one or 2, it is loads.

yep - and that's what's so shocking it was a frequent experience for me and yet the narrative is it's just on or two bad apples and whenever I''ve tried to counter that suddenly I'm vain and seeing things which aren't there or taking comments the wrong way .

A train is not a public place (you have to pay to get on) so report this incident to the train company tomorrow. There may well be CCTV. Consider an official complaint. Your daughter is underage. Also report it to the police. What's he doing with the film?

"most men will call it out when they see it, I believe."

You believe wrong.

Most men don't (I've never had one intervene or say anything) and most women won't either.

Society as a whole says oh yes that's bad but when faced with an actual example it's generally left with the girl to handle.

This systemic issue at the extreme end leaves you with rochdale etc where the girls were seen by the authorities as active participants, treated more like they were adults choosing / driving the stuff, and not seen as the children they were.

Girls over puberty are very often painted as sexually knowing and the men who approach them etc as poor bamboozled men drawn in by a pretty face.