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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be angry and distressed at the amount of harassment my fourteen year old daughter faces?

287 replies

Saggingninja · 17/03/2019 11:37

A small sample. She's been harassed on a bus by a man in his thirties when she was in her school uniform. Nobody intervened. She was followed slowly down a street by a man in a car, but when she turned to take a photo of his licence plate, he drove off. She was asked for a 'date' by a man who was 'in his fifties'. When she pointed out she was only fourteen he smiled and said 'he didn't mind.' And yesterday on the train with some friends, she noticed this man filming them. When she turned to face him, he stopped and moved away.

My daughter is confident and I've told her not to be afraid of telling anyone harassing her to fuck off or to loudly remind them that she's underage. I put up with so much crap when I was a teenager out of fear of being rude. But I'm so angry and distressed that this happens so often. Nothing has changed has it?

OP posts:
IcedPurple · 19/03/2019 14:58

I don't defend or deny the actions of a minority of men who believe that this behaviour (and worse) is acceptable as clearly it isn't.

I'm not convinced they're all that tiny a minority.

Go on any discussion about such matters - even in a supposedly 'right-on' publication like The Guardian - and you will see many if not most men minimising and even denying such behaviour.

A lot of men must think such behaviour is acceptable, even if they don't practice it themselves.

sagradafamiliar · 19/03/2019 14:59

PB you were quoting and questioning people.

MeAgainAgain · 19/03/2019 15:01

"Inbuilt urge to protect" lol. The stories men tell themselves!!!

The feelings that most men have towards girls and young women they don't know are pretty much - neutral to oh look she's sexy etc.

Very few men look at a teenage girl out in her summer wear with a protective eye. The eye they employ is lecherous.

As you have never been a teenage girl out in summer wear, I hope you are not going to try to dispute this.

I use summer wear but of course it happens with winter wear, wet weather wear, sports wear and so on and so forth.

O4FS · 19/03/2019 15:02

Doesn’t feel like a minority to me.

Feels to me that this ‘minority’ inflict humiliation, embarrassment and pain on an awful lot of women and girls.

O4FS · 19/03/2019 15:04

Take any FB post highlighting men’s behaviour towards women. The very BEST comment you can expect from a man is ‘not all men’ and then you will get the usual defensive attitude, ‘feminazi’ comments etc.

Never will a man say ‘that’s really shit. Us men really need to do something about it’. Never.

O4FS · 19/03/2019 15:07

(On a lighter note, how does one shout out the window of a bus? It's hard enough to get the bloody things open!)

Men will spread their legs to make sure you see their erection on a bus.

They will also stand and press against you. Some will masturbate.

They will sit next to an 11 year old child, cornering her in the window seat and stare at her for 20 mins until She has to stand up and push past him to get off.

Hope that helps clarify.

MsTSwift · 19/03/2019 15:53

Minority of men do it majority ignore or minimise it. Unless you are in Egypt in which case the majority do it.

HexagonalBattenburg · 19/03/2019 17:01

So nice to see a manly man has now shown up on the thread to tell us that HE has no direct experience of having this stuff happen to him so all those women must be imagining it.

Let me guess - all hysteria from those pesky irrational wombs huh?

They yell from cars, catcall from scaffolding and heckle from vans because they have the advantage of distance... or rapidly obtaining distance - against lone women, or mothers with prams (like I was). Pure cowardice, pure intimidation, and totally targeted at those they see in a vulnerable situation.

IC4nSeeYourPixels · 19/03/2019 17:18

Do they? Really? I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it's not exactly 'common' is it?

It's more common than it should be. I'm 39 and just last week had a car full of middle aged men pull up where I was waiting to cross and ask me to suck their dicks. Husband and teenage daughter saw and hear the whole thing and it was totally humiliating. One of many many many instances I've had since 11.

First time I remember it was when I was about five and a car full of men stopped as my Mum (23 at the time) was picking up my teddy I'd dropped and said she's clearly gagging for it because she bent over in public. I knew then she was scared and because she said to ignore them to me, and when I heard her friends complain about the same type of stuff it felt like it was just a normal thing men did.

When I was 18 I had a man garb me towards him in the street and grope my breasts and try to get his hands down my jeans (thank fuck fashion at time tightly belted jeans with baggy jumpers tucked in because he'd have been inside my knickers otherwise. College (the place it happened) and my own mum told me to not make a fuss so I just stfu about it and didn't make a fuss when similar incidents happened too

I can say my Dh would challenge men doing this and he does now but hasn't always. In his late teens and early twenties he didn't challenge his mates catcalling women as they walked past the beer garden. He didn't challenge his mates trying to lift girls skirts up at school etc and he feels horrible about it now. Nothings he thought were "banter" he now is ashamed by and I think that's what makes him challenge things now.

He had no idea what I'd put up with over the years because it didn't happen when he was next to me, until one time he about five mins behind me walking home because a friend held him up and dd (4) at the time was upset and tired. He saw a car full of men slow driving next to me and making sexual comments. He asked why I didn't tell them to fuck off and just kept walking like they weren't there.

Had a very very very long chat about why, and he gets it.

There's been many times since where Dh has caught men harassing me when they've thought I was alone, never once has anyone other than him intervened so while I know I believe when he says he would and does now call out men for this stuff, other men haven't helped me and have either turned the other way or been mates with the cunt harassing me and laughing or watching him grab me etc.

One of the worse cases was when I was pregnant with dd, we were going out for a meal and Dh needed toilet when we got to pub, so I went to bar for (soft) drinks, man started asking me to go sit with his mates and wouldn't take no for an answer, dozens of men and two bouncers watching him grab at me to pull me towards him and did fuck all, I asked him to leave me alone and he punched me in the face just as Dh was was coming back from the toilets, Dh grabbed the man and pulled him away from me, pervs mates then came over to defend him and THEN the bouncers came over to stop Dh hitting him. They asked us to leave despite me having a bust lip from the punch and then seeing the whole fucking thing.

So while I can say my DH would challenge these men, he dislike men who get offended and jump in with Not All Men and there's been a family row when he's called out men in my family for disgusting attitudes towards women, I've been in enough situations to know my experience doesn't tally with "most men intervening" and that of women I know.

I'm older and way more confident now and will report and challenge every shitty attitude and I've noticed that men who moan "not all men" usually do a milder version of the behaviour being complained about and don't count themselves as pervs. Every man in real life who've said this to me have been very sexist men to start with.

Decent, kind, understanding men don't get angry and try to derail conversations about male sexual violence with Not All Men.

IC4nSeeYourPixels · 19/03/2019 17:24

And I think the reason some men don't challenge is because some men don't see it as harassment. I know a few men who think telling a woman he doesn't know in a supermarket she has a great figure is a compliment and not harassment, or that telling a woman how to behave while she's going about her day is being "friendly" and not sexual at all

Asked my brother a while back it's it's a compliment and being friendly then he will be flattered if a gay man gives him compliments on their body and asks them to smile for them? Yeah, he didn't think it would be the same!

alaric77 · 19/03/2019 17:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MsTSwift · 19/03/2019 17:29

Example. 23 eating my picnic on my lunch break in the sun wearing a suit fwiw. Forty something man comes up and asks if I “would like to sit on his face”. Flashed at numerous times had “slag” “bitch” and “cunt” shouted by men in cars and vans as I walk down the street. Too many examples to list. So forgive me if I don’t share the view that is a tiny minority and decent men step in. Ha bloody ha you don’t have a fucking clue.

IC4nSeeYourPixels · 19/03/2019 17:32

This is a good piece about men not calling out other being seen as approval

Madmarchpear · 19/03/2019 17:35

I have caught a few dirty old men double taking and staring at my 6 year old. Fucking animals.

Sarcelle · 19/03/2019 20:25

I love it that a man has come on and said that he has never witnessed any of this. Yes dear, we are all making it up. So is everybody on the Everyday Sexism website. The beauty of that site is it doesn't just detail sexual harassment it also has many examples of mansplaining and misogyny. Us women are complete fantasists aren't we?

PuntasticUsername · 19/03/2019 20:55

Sorry if this has already been posted, I haven't RTFT, but it seems to fit quite well at this point.

To be angry and distressed at the amount of harassment my fourteen year old daughter faces?
ScarletBitch · 19/03/2019 21:31

I would take a photo of each disgusting man who approached her then take it to the Police. Your poor daughter.

Catsinthecupboard · 20/03/2019 02:13

If i catch a grown man staring at my daughter's bottom, i catch his eye, stare right at him and step btwn them.

I've never had one do anything but fade away. But i have a very deadly glare. Mostly bc when i scowl, i let my anger show.

The orher thing i do is reach my purse or bag and hold it up. Shielding her. I don't try to be polite or discreet.

I want them to know:

  1. it is unacceptable

  2. i might be small and old but they will not have an easy time if they dare try snything.

I've scowled away some pretty nasty people. Men and women. Unwanted attention is unwanted attention.

Barrenfieldoffucks · 20/03/2019 07:02

11 pages of women and sharing experiences + one man saying those experiences are either rare or didn't happen. Figures. 🤦😂

IM0GEN · 20/03/2019 07:55

That’s why they don’t call it out , isn’t it ? Because they “ don’t see it “. Or it’s “ none of their business “. Or they “consider it a compliment “. Or they were not there the minisclue amount of times that it actually happens .

Now I have to dash. I’m off to a support group for black people to tell them that they are imagining or over stating racism. I’m sure they will find the perspective of a white person to be invaluable.

sagradafamiliar · 20/03/2019 08:31

It's either ignorance or plain old unsurprising misogyny. Ignorance much like when a man says 'smile love' and then basks in the smugness of thinking 'she won't have heard this line before, aren't I the maverick' not thinking for one second that we've been hearing that particular tedious command pretty much all our lives.
Or the misogyny of thinking we should 'just loosen up'.

KaliforniaDreamz · 20/03/2019 11:54

IM0GEN there is a current thread running on this Grin

BlooperReel · 20/03/2019 12:16

I am so angry that nothing has changed, years of women trying to highlight that this shit goes on, peadophile rings busted, the #metoo movement, nothing has changed at all.

I have had near on daily levels of harassment since the age of about 12, and that is not an exaggeration. I can rarely leave the house without at least one cat call, whistle or comment.

One of the more extreme incidents: I was on a night out, walking arm in arm with my husband, when a drunk man slapped my backside so hard I almost fell over, and would have hit the deck if I hadn't been holding on to my husbands arm. His friends tried to justify it with 'he is drunk, he didn't mean to hit so hard' WTF. There are no boundaries when it comes to men's lust.

AmIBU123 · 20/03/2019 12:25

Gosh this makes me so angry. I started fearing for my eldest DD as soon as I discovered I was having a girl. Now I have two!

Haven't seen the post where someone has said it's not that common. Wth?! Every female I know has gone through this. As a teenager my friends and I often relayed to one another how we were harassed again. It's never going to change is it.

AmIBU123 · 20/03/2019 12:28

I don't mean to blame here btw but I had a friend who actually smiled whenever she was verbally harassed and as we got older would think being slapped on the arse was flirting. I believe she was brought up to believe that being harassed meant she was beautiful (which she was) and would take it as a compliment. I became the angry defensive friend because I could not stand it. It's sad how some girls and raised.

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