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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Donor consent law is being changed...

895 replies

flirtygirl · 16/03/2019 10:39

Aibu to have expected more information before they changes the law, did they do a consultation? I feel miffed that it is now going to be deemed consent and you have to opt out.

But what if the system is down or the opt out which is digital and online, did not get stored properly? What about when you move and change address? Do you have to tell every medical practitioner manually as well?

There is no info it seems on what this will mean. If you have info or any helpful links please let me know, thanks

OP posts:
isabellerossignol · 16/03/2019 11:13

It is just the polar opposite of every other bit of medical ethics. If a patient comes into hospital smeared in faeces and in a pool of urine, nurses can't even wash them unless they agree to it.

But if they they collapsed and died...

As I said, I won't opt out but I do think that presumed consent is not ethically consistent with everything else that we know about best practice in medicine.

formerbabe · 16/03/2019 11:14

Presumed consent is used throughout the NHS every single day.

In the best interests of the person concerned, rather than third parties I presume?

Original poster
flirtygirl · 16/03/2019 11:14

My auntie was told it had shortened her life but she was willing to do so for her draught erstwhile. I have 2 daughters and we have discussed it at length and they know they would not be expected to give or receive an organ.

OP posts:
TrendyNorthLondonTeen · 16/03/2019 11:14

"It's absolutely fine to be selfish in regards to bodily autonomy."

Well I don't really care about my "bodily autonomy" when I'm dead because I won't know what the fuck is happening anyway. If sacrificing my autonomy means that someone else can actually stay alive then I'm all for it. I won't need my organs when I'm dead.

TitsalinaBumSquash · 16/03/2019 11:15

The word 'harvesting' when it comes to organ transplant it abhorrent.
Scaremongering about people selling organs or not providing proper treatment to get more organs should be a crime.

If you haven't been in the position on relying on an organ to save the life of your child, or yourself then you cannot possibly understand.

This isn't a political standpoint thing where you should feel that you're 'sticking it to the system' by opting out to show them that they don't own your body. Grow the fuck up, this is lives you're saving, children's lives, mothers, fathers, friends lives. Shame on you if you use this as some bullshit protest against the government.

I only hope you never witness a loved one gasping for breath or unable to even sit up alone because their own organs are failing.

It's the most selfish thing you can do to opt out.

onalongsabbatical · 16/03/2019 11:16

flirtygirl this has been in the news for years and discussed into the ground. Whether you agree with it or not you cannot blame your lack of knowledge on it on a failure to inform. I suggest you have failed to be a well-informed person.

LonelyTiredandLow · 16/03/2019 11:16

In a sea of Brexit shite this has made my year.
Hopefully many lives will be saved as a result Smile

LL83 · 16/03/2019 11:16

This has been talked about and publicised for months if not years. I am surprised you dont know.

Opt out once, if you move address you wont be opted back in so it doesn't really matter.

What about all those willing donors whose organs are wasted because they didn't get round to opting in? Those who feel strongly about opting out will make the effort to do it. It's a brilliant idea.

Prequelle · 16/03/2019 11:17

In the best interests of the person concerned, rather than third parties I presume?

So your issue isn't presumed consent as you claimed it was, it's presumed consent that doesn't benefit you. Right? Just to be clear.

CostanzaG · 16/03/2019 11:17

Spot on titsalina 👍

kaldefotter · 16/03/2019 11:17

There seems to be a lot of anger directed at people who aren’t keen on a ‘presumed consent’ system. People concerned about this legal change aren’t anti-donation. They’re concerned about a legal shift to the state owning your body after death, unless you were both aware of the legal change and opted out (many won’t be aware). It’s a significant legal change in the relationship between the state and its citizens.

There’s a difference between opting to gift your organs in death, and the state presuming it can harvest your organs in death.

LettuceP · 16/03/2019 11:17

It's not just about lives saved, it's about not being utterly selfish by allowing other people to die while your much needed organs go to waste because of some moral stance

100% this. Can't stand people who luuuurve to disagree with the popular opinion on stuff like this because they think it makes them look clever and special.

rubyroot · 16/03/2019 11:17

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Lockheart · 16/03/2019 11:18

It's easy to be generous when it doesn't actually require anything of you (i.e. you'll be dead).

It seems perverse to me that people would say they'd treat an organ donor over a non-organ donor because the non-donor is 'selfish'. First of all because they have no idea of the lives they've led and how much they've given back to society during their lives, and secondly because the NHS does not discriminate by perceived worthiness!

pisspawpatrol · 16/03/2019 11:18

I don't know if people are aware, but you need to die in very specific circumstances to even be a donor.

IIRC you have to die whilst on a ventilator, in a hospital. So if you suddenly drop dead at home they're not going to start hacking you to pieces in the living room to preserve your organs. They're already unusable.

JaneEyre07 · 16/03/2019 11:19

I would only hope then if people opt out, then they are not given the option of a transplant should they ever need it.

Give and take, and all that.

I have no urge to have perfectly functioning organs cremated with my bones because they are "mine".

LonelyTiredandLow · 16/03/2019 11:19

All of the selfish people can opt out - i'm sure you'd turn down an organ if you or your loved ones were dying too, of course.
Can't possibly have double standards.

NunoGoncalves · 16/03/2019 11:19

I will be opting out

Fuck them...is nothing sacred anymore?

Didn't take long for someone to hijack the thread for a good old-fashioned e-argument.

LoudBatPerson · 16/03/2019 11:19

YABU, there was a consultation and this has been reported widely for quite a long time now.

Spiderbanana · 16/03/2019 11:19

@kaldefotter

But NOK will still have the final say so there won't be any real difference.

Prequelle · 16/03/2019 11:19

I'll be opting out- it's disgusting, it is a way they can sell our organs- just like they've bee doing it with our blood

Lol. I wonder where my part of this dosh has gone.

killpop · 16/03/2019 11:19

@MoreSlidingDoors

had the system live in Wales and Scotland for years. No drama.

In Scotland? The link says Scotland is still opt in.

U2HasTheEdge · 16/03/2019 11:19

Then surely it is ok to harvest organs without any consent at all if we are going to prioritise needs over morals?

Stupid argument.

I am not sure if I will opt out yet. Like I said, I am very pro donation but I have a problem with an opt out system. I don't think the default position should be that the state has the right to my organs unless I tell them otherwise.

I just read something that I found quite interesting

'Families may feel the wishes of their loved ones are more ambiguous compared to opt-in systems, leading to higher risk of family refusal.'

www.theweek.co.uk/35635/automatic-organ-donation-the-pros-and-cons

That is a very good point.

isabellerossignol · 16/03/2019 11:20

100% this. Can't stand people who luuuurve to disagree with the popular opinion on stuff like this because they think it makes them look clever and special.

Who is doing that?

GottaGoGottaGo · 16/03/2019 11:21

@formerbabe
If it's all about number of lives saved them why not kill one prisoner serving life...
One dead but potentially 6 lives saved by
2 kidneys
1 liver
1 heart
2 lungs
Good idea right?

Well, that's just about the most utterly stupid thing I have seen typed on mumsnet. We are talking about donating your OWN organs after you are dead and potentially saving a life. Where on earth does that come close to saying it's okay to go and murder someone for theirs? It is totally and utterly irrelevant! Goodness gracious, talk about being goady!