Donor consent law is being changed...

[flirtygirl]

Aibu to have expected more information before they changes the law, did they do a consultation? I feel miffed that it is now going to be deemed consent and you have to opt out.

But what if the system is down or the opt out which is digital and online, did not get stored properly? What about when you move and change address? Do you have to tell every medical practitioner manually as well?

There is no info it seems on what this will mean. If you have info or any helpful links please let me know, thanks

Can you still view the body if you donate organs?

I hope ou can still view th ebody hence my suggestion above if they took my eyes I would want glass ones put in in place and a good cosmetic job done on patching me up again.

I just opted out to be on the safe side as I don't think the state should take this from us. As someone else said above the state takes and controls more and more and rarely gives us more powers and more freedoms.

That leaves the family able to consent at the time if we all think it is right. Had the state not been going to make this change I would have remained on the donor register.

"When is the law changing?
The law has now been passed by Parliament and has received Royal Assent, but will not come into effect until spring 2020.
The law around organ donation will remain ‘opt in’ until this time."

well be in the position that you'll die if you don't receive one and I bet your perception changes
I will not opt out, but no I would never have a transplant. Many and various reasons. So no my perception wont change. But thanks for the hectoring tone.

And please, those of you saying you won’t accept an organ, do fuck off. Are you seriously trying to persuade us that you’d rather die? Really?

It really isn't as simple as that.

My uncle received a kidney and went on to live a healthy and productive life. When he died the kidney was still going strong.

I have however just watched my lovely neighbour die a horrible death after a kidney transplant. Post surgery infections and complications meant constant hospital stays and he died of multiple organ failure within the year. He said he wished he'd never had it as his quality of life was so much worse afterwards than it had been on daily overnight dialysis.

I lost a friend a few years ago after she had 2 failed transplants.

From my own experience I would almost certainly refuse a donor organ. It's no guarantee of a good outcome

@TaraBoomdieh definitely worthwhile. My friend was gutted her relative’s body couldn’t be donated, I think they all just assumed it was straightforward and someone was bound to take it!

Don't talk pseudo inspirational clap trap. Who on earth are you renting it from anyway?

I want to know who gets the rent! 😂

Sorry... that update on telling your daughters not to expect an organ should they need one... I’m actually speechless. but that is a reality of potentially needing an organ. Very few conditions are such that a live donation would be possible, and as such if you are in a position to need a transplant there is a high possibility that you won’t get one.

And live donation is a very, very personal thing and something which affects the giver immensely as well, this should not be downplayed because to do a live donation is a very personal choice. Equally many donations are not eligible for live transplant. I may need a heart in the future. I can only receive one if someone else dies. Even if my family were of the opinion that they would give me a heart, they wouldn’t be able to by virtue of the fact they would obviously need to be dead.

Anyone could fill out a donor card - no one checked that you knew exactly what you were signing

I take your point, but there has to be a cut-off somewhere; after all, the same principle applies to consent forms for surgery (though here, there are safeguarding protocols around consent if the patient lacks capacity)

What I really can't believe is the insistence that anyone opting out should be denied a organ themselves. Again I get the rationale, but in effect this is saying "they don't "deserve" a benefit because they've made a selfish choice". Try applying that to any other situation around perceived poor behaviour and the insidiousness becomes obvious

And why are many now suggesting it's someone's own fault if they're not informed about this change? And with the government/NHS of all things, where communication is notoriously poor? On Mumsnet, any such ignorance - be it about benefit changes, financial mis-selling, whatever - is nearly always deemed to be the fault of "the system" and the bunch of b**tards who run it

... except when it comes to the issue of "owning" our very bodies, it seems

Prequelle

I believe anyone who opts out shouldn't be allowed an organ.

If you're not willing to contribute then you shouldn't get to benefit.

This 100%

From my own experience I would almost certainly refuse a donor organ. It's no guarantee of a good outcome

I find this really interesting. A girl from school had a heart transplant which was incredibly difficult for her, lots of rejection issues, medication etc but she has battled on. She wants to live and as a single mum, she wanted to look after her child. I think it’s all very well to say you’d refuse, but if refusing meant you’d definitely die and a new organ might mean you’d live a normal life, then I imagine pretty much 100% of people would be ecstatic to be offered the opportunity of a donated organ.

And I wonder how many of the pro opt out types on here would be happy to donate their uterus to a trans woman in order to, you know, make them a biological woman?

The kind of death you have to have in order to donate is really
specific though, hardly anyone will die in a way that means they are eligible donors
This has been said before so are there any numbers?
Is this a massive waste of time because the same amount of people will die in the right circumstances, and the same amount of organs will be donated simply because lots will opt out?

If you're not willing to contribute then you shouldn't get to benefit. so what about if you’ve never had a job? Never paid national insurance? You haven’t contributed to the NHS so you shouldn’t be allowed to benefit?

Do bear in mind that this talk about not being prepared to contribute is purely hypothetical given that most of us will never actually be in a position to be organ donors and yet are more likely to need an organ by which point most wouldn’t actually be in a position to be able to contribute anyway due to their own poor health.

See where the argument breaks down there?

I believe anyone who opts out shouldn't be allowed an organ.

If you're not willing to contribute then you shouldn't get to benefit.

Well I haven't seen anyone demanding that rule under the (ethical) opt-in system, so it seems a bit much to want under an opt-out one.

@NoCauseRebel to be honest there are some who think the argument doesn’t break down there!

You can still view the body when you donate, it's really carefully reconstructed. Skin grafts are taken off the back of the legs iirc.

I think with the opt out system, if you have opted out I don't think your NOK could overrule. But they could still refuse even if you hadn't opted out. If you eant to donate, your NOK need to be really clear and ready to enact your wishes as your body becomes their possession when you die

I think it’s all very well to say you’d refuse, but if refusing meant you’d definitely die and a new organ might mean you’d live a normal life, then I imagine pretty much 100% of people would be ecstatic to be offered the opportunity of a donated organ.

Quite a few people do, particularly those who are older and/or have had former transplants that failed. Allogenic stem cell transplants (those come from living donors) for cancer treatment are sometimes refused by potential recipients as they are associated with great risk and/or poor quality of life for some time after and such potential recipients may have weighed up chance of success and relapse with quality of future life that is left to them. All sorts of reasons. Whilst organ transplant is vital sadly they're also far from a magic bullet .

I think it's great. I also think people who opt out should not be put on waiting lists should they ever require an organ. I can't understand why anyone would opt out (except for religious reasons maybe).

Treefloof, I think it might well be esp as a PP has suggested that there is research that shows there are fewer donations in opt-out situations. Someone upthread has suggested only 3% people are eligible donors anyway and just on the basis of this thread, people who are actually willing donors will opt out because they believe that their NOK will override it, but I don't think that you could harvest with a clearly stated refusal from the donor. And the reality is no one will harvest if NOK refuse anyway. So all we have is more options for refusal, really. I suppose ethically it is better because the case is that under the current system your NOK could consent to being a donor even if you hadn't wanted to

The one benefit it might bring is people having clear conversations with their NOK and this I think is the stumbling block of the current system - people have to make a huge decsion in one of their most desperate moments and I think it's hard to agree if there is any lack of certainty in the NOK, so loads of potential donors are not donors.

If I have learned one undeniable thing from mumsnet it is this.

Responding to a reasonable (even if challenging) question about your standpoint starting with a patronising "Bless..." is the best way to sound sanctimonious, ill informed and out of your depth.

I pray that nobody with the "other people's families aren't my responsibility" attitude never have need for an organ donation or have to through the desperate, long and agonising wait to find a donor.

Because then hopefully they be one of the lucky ones who got the donation needed so they'd properly reflect on their previous comments and I imagine feel like a bit of a cunt.

To me personally THE most natural thing to do is use natural resources that would otherwise go to waste to prolong, improve and save lives. We are so incredibly lucky to live in a country that is not only able to do this but does so through a national health service. Of course it isn't perfect but my god we are lucky in the grand scheme.

You do get to choose.
That is the point.
They are giving you the choice.

Cherrysoup We are all definitely going to die. No one gets out alive.

Not everyone is afraid of death and I have no wish to live at any price. For me the risk of a worse quality of life post transplant would be too high. If I was a single parent with a dependent child then that might change things but I'd be doing it for my child, not for me.

To be a donor, you have to be generally healthy, under a certain age for some organs like heart and lungs, and have died on a ventilator. So some catastrophic brain injury that means you nevertheless get to hospital before brain death occurs is it. My DDad had a massive stroke, but when we go to the yearly service for donors the most common thing is accidents

I support an opt-out system. I don't have a problem in giving my body parts to others after my death. I fully understand that I wouldn't get a say in who they were given to.

To be a donor, you have to be generally healthy, under a certain age for some organs like heart and lungs, and have died on a ventilator.

What about if you are a smoker or regular drug user or alcoholic? Does that discount you as well?

What about if you are a smoker or regular drug user or alcoholic? Does that discount you as well? yes very likely. Organs are assessed at the point of removal, and if those organs are not in a healthy state they are not considered eligible for donation.

Your liver for instance will show if you even drink moderately, so if you were a heavy drinker this would likely remove your liver as a contender, therefore leaving two potential recipients unable to receive it.

Iirc the heart is more often than not rejected, I can’t remember the exact statistic but it’s something like in only 20% of situations where organs are donated is the heart eligible to be donated because of the sheer number of undetected issues we have with our hearts.

Fuck sake. People making out like opting out is harder than climbing Kilimanjaro backwards.

MN is rife with anger today.