And now we have food banks . . .

[longwayoff]

Just saw Lenny Henry reminiscing 30 years of Comic Relief. And, as he said,if you'd told him then he'd be here years later raising money for food banks in the UK he would have refused to believe it. Quite rightly, me too. We're still one if the wealthiest countries in the world. Why aren't we more ashamed of this disgraceful development?

O great, dealing with malnutrition. This is not Ethiopia in the midst of famine. Malnutrition should not exist here. You should be ashamed to think in such a way.

When my middle child was studying in England we were struggling because my husband was dying. He couldn’t go to the food bank, because he said it was in an area that meant he had to pass through a place that was notorious for drug abuse and violence and he was afraid. He couldn’t afford a bus, so had to go without. It absolutely broke my heart, when he confessed this to me later.

It’s not just about the food being available, it’s about the difficulty of getting to those areas and carrying the food back.

Oh good grief.
It’s so difficult to have a genuinely nuanced interesting discussion on this.issie. It gets boiled down to “the government are shite”. “We’re back to Victorian times”. Seriously, “Victorian times”. No idea whatsoever.

I’ll leeve you to it

It is a Victorian concept that poverty should be dealt with by the benevolence of charity rather than at state level.

Ffs. We have austerity because previous governments over spent. British people are so spoilt, they expect their government to provide everything these days. People make irresponsible lifestyle choices and expect higher earning tax payers to pay for it and pay for themselves and pay of historic debt. It’s not ok to make yourself dependant on government handouts and then complain when you aren’t given enough.

It’s perfectly OK to complain if you haven’t got enough to eat. Another Tory who conveniently ignores the global financial crisis in 2008, it has to be previous over spending, ie humane, governments.

There have always been informal Food Banks around, many churches have always helped ‘the poor’ and given out food, clothing etc. Just because they were not well publicised or You didn’t use them doesn’t mean they didn’t exist.

Mmmmbrekkie we had an answer to poverty, tax credits and a fair Welfare Benefit system.

GregoryPeckingDuck, Austerity had nothing to do with overspending, we aren't saving any money and national debt has risen by 64%.

"It’s not ok to make yourself dependant on government handouts and then complain when you aren’t given enough."

People didn't make themselves dependant on Government handouts. Wage levels, the cost of living and other factors outside of the people who need the help, control.

It is NOT ok to complain that you do not have enough to eat if you have spent your money on fags, booze, drugs, bookies, payday lenders etc

Sadly a lot of people have piss-poor budgeting skills. I doubt that it will ever change - how can it?

The more food banks there are, the more they will be turned to, of course. If you know that there is a safety net you are much more likely to jump.

I have no doubt that there are those who have not been reckless or ridiculous in their spending. But I bet that they are being swamped by those who are just being irresponsible and give zero fucks for anyone less fortunate than themselves.

With taxes and benefits, the government forces people to give up a portion of their income which then gets distributed to those who need it.

With food banks, people voluntarily give up a portion of their income which gets distributed to those who need it.

Is one necessarily that much worse than the other?

Ffs. We have austerity because previous governments over spent. British people are so spoilt, they expect their government to provide everything these days. People make irresponsible lifestyle choices and expect higher earning tax payers to pay for it and pay for themselves and pay of historic debt. It’s not ok to make yourself dependant on government handouts and then complain when you aren’t given enough.

It's not about handouts, it's about the State providing a safety net for the elderly, ill, poor, through taxation. Why pay taxes otherwise?

Life can make a person dependent on the State through death, disease, injury or just getting older. Added to which, many people are born into poverty and never leave it.

As mentioned above, if the State insisted on a higher minimum wage (a wage that met or exceeded the cost of living), people would need 'handouts' and foodbanks to a far lesser degree.

I don't disagree that the British are comparably spoilt to less-developed nations but that doesn't absolve the wealthy British state of its responsibility to its people, ensuring the poorest members of its society are provided for in terms of food and housing.

So only the “deserving poor” then? I despair of the human race sometimes.

The more food banks there are, the more they will be turned to, of course. If you know that there is a safety net you are much more likely to jump.

They are not fucking grocery stores. You have to be referred to them.

I can certainly imagine a nurse needing a foodbank.

S/he might have children and be living in a rented property. Even if housing benefit paid some of the rent, it might not cover all the cost, espcially if the rent had risen.. Her/his children might need shoes, a bill might have been higher than usual or the car that s/he needed to get to work might need to be repaired.

Often people only have just enough and an unexpected expense will mean that they cannot even afford the essentials.

Knowing somebody's income means nothing unless you also know about their expenses and their circumstances.

Between 2010 and 2017, use of Trussell Trust food banks rose from 41,000 to 1.2 million

This is the damning thing imo. Along with the report today/yesterday about how many teachers/headtechers are now supplying students with laundry facilities, shoes, food, clothing, sanpro, soap, occasionally shelter because otherwise their charges arrive hungry/cold/tired/dirty.

There have always been shit parents and people with chaotic circumstances who needed intervention, but the dramatic increase over a short period, coinciding with the development of policies like UC, and the number of affected families with people in work, points to a large-scale systematic problem imo.

Why aren't we more ashamed of this disgraceful development?

Because the Tory government are proud and satisfied with what they have done. Because the people that voted for the Tories are proud and satisfied with what they have done.
Because the government and media have distracted everyone with Brexit whilst they have systematically destroyed welfare and ruined the lives of disabled, sick, poor people and children in poverty.

It's also entirely conceivable that more information was given to the Indy. Journalists, do not have unlimited space and editors cut pieces.

The point is that people who do what used to be thought of as good and necessary jobs, who do demanding work from which we all benefit - e.g. teachers and nurses - are living in a society where in many cases the wages from such jobs are not sufficient to cover the essentials of keeping a roof over ones own head - and that of dependent children - and for heat, lighting, transport and food.

This is what people who voted conservatives want. More money for the rich, nothing for the poor or the disabled. Or those with serious illnesses. Or with low paying jobs. I could go on but some of you got the point, the others stopped caring a long time ago.

You're right Hell, smug, smug and more smug. Distraction and obfuscation. It's sickening.

@Mmmmbrekkie

What a spin on things !

You are either a troll or a Pollyanna

We’ve always had food banks...

Let's blame the poor people!!! They all spend their money on booze and fags. Just ignore the 1000s of people using food banks because wages don't pay enough for people to live on.
I despair at a society and government that thinks it is acceptable for wages not to be high enough for people to feed their children and think we should blame the poor for being poor.