And now we have food banks . . .

[longwayoff]

Just saw Lenny Henry reminiscing 30 years of Comic Relief. And, as he said,if you'd told him then he'd be here years later raising money for food banks in the UK he would have refused to believe it. Quite rightly, me too. We're still one if the wealthiest countries in the world. Why aren't we more ashamed of this disgraceful development?

[ThriftyMcThrifty]

I volunteered in a food bank in a small midlands town as part of my duke of Edinburgh a good 25 years ago. But I do agree they have become much more common and more needed today.

[BadPennyNoBiscuit]

Throwing some money at poor people would be a good start to eradicating poverty, thats exactly how it works.

For example, you need money to find a job and start work.

[HellAndDegenerates]

I would make it compulsory in all our schools in primary and upwards to teach cookery/home economics and finance.

I'd agree but austerity has hit schools so hard that one are shutting early on Fridays to cut costs. How are they going to afford more compulsory lessons?
How are the poorest going to afford the ingredients? Etc.

There's kids out there now reliant on their teachers to give them meals and clothing because their parents have been pushed into destitution by a government that knows and does not give a shiny shit.

Read the news.. look at what Brexit is costing, look at the money changing hands between Tories and DUP, look at the money wasted on contracts that line other peoples pockets. That garden bridge... Look at the money that Universal Credit has pissed away.

No look at the kids in school so hungry they can barely learn a damn thing. Then tell me in good conscience how any one can vote and support the continuation of this.

[Arnoldthecat]

Indeed,ive been piss poor myself. We all know its a complex matter with a myriad of causes. . People need support to learn and upskill. Continually shovelling money at people is not a sustainable solution. They need to engage,be enabled ,get with it in so much as they are capable or risk going under.

[EssentialHummus]

Little thought experiment arnold. You’ve fled DV with your young children and just been rehoused in a hostel or (lucky you) flat with basic cooking facilities. Gas and electric are metered. You’ve got a generous £20 in your pocket. The nearest proper shop is a few miles away.

You could walk there and back with your DC (several hours) or take a bus (cutting into your funds). The kids are unsettled and acting up after the last few days. If you get there you could buy a big 5kg bag of lentils for £2, some frozen veg, potatoes some spices, porridge, all sorts to make healthy cheap meals - but then the cooker needs to run for an hour or more, and you risk your kids turning their noses up at unfamiliar food (never mind carrying that lot back). Oh, and you’ll need a pot or cooker too - £5? Or you could go to the corner store over the road - you’ll likely find pizza (£1), bread and butter (overpriced, but still), the biscuits your kids know and like, food which is quick to cook, cheap and tasty, and which leaves you with money for tomorrow, and you can top up your gas card.

I can cook amazing dhals and stews for about 50p per portion in my kitchen, but there are plenty of people who can’t - and we need to take the value judgement out of it. I don’t doubt that there are lazy and uneducated people, but there are also some very clear odds stacked against the poorest in society.

[BadPennyNoBiscuit]

Cooking requires pesky skills such as the ability to own utensils and a cooker.

[Alsohuman]

The cheapest food tends to be the most calorific and the easiest to cook.

[longwayoff]

I saw 3 young people leave a food bank a few weeks ago. 2 men and a woman, early 20s ish. They sat on a bench nearby and ate a cauliflower and some carrots. Raw. Obviously they should have taken it home and made a nourishing soup to last all week utilising their budgeting skills and home economics training but they seemed to be quite hungry right then. Raw.

[BadPennyNoBiscuit]

Becuase they know no better/are lazy/cant cook/wont cook/have learned this from their parent(s).

No, thats not true. Food poverty goes hand in hand with fuel and water poverty. You cant cook dried beans from scratch when you cant afford fuel and water.

[wafflyversatile]

Some poor people are obese, not all. Some obese are not poor. Ill health can lead to both obesity and poverty.

Its not just (some) poor people who can't cook or budget. Lots of people can't do either well but they're not poor so are irrelevant to the poor-bashers who think they have the answers.

It's not just about not being able to cook. It's about having cooking facilities, having money for the Meter, having money for the bus to the market or supermarket, carrying it home.

[Arnoldthecat]

*arnold poverty and obesity go hand in hand - the cheapest food is the most processed and calorific, even leaving aside food deserts etc."

I think it has more to do with lack of education and basic skills than food costs. Base ingredients are inexpensive. Buying boxes and packets/ready meals and takeaways is expensive. Obesity is a modern epidemic . Its linked to buying prepared foods. Why do people buy them when they are nutritionally questionable and expensive? Becuase they know no better/are lazy/cant cook/wont cook/have learned this from their parent(s) .

I would make it compulsory in all our schools in primary and upwards to teach cookery/home economics and finance.

[adagio]

We need to stop blaming the people that pay tax or the people that need benefits and start blaming the big businesses who pay too little to the workers, the governments which allow it, and the pyramid scheme where everything (including food banks, charities, ha etc) is about making profit not about redistribution of wealth.

The current answer seems to be to bill the people who have a little bit more (eg earning £40k or whatever the high rate tax band is, or making it so everyone regardless pays council tax) but leave the ones earning £100k plus to it.

[EssentialHummus]

arnold poverty and obesity go hand in hand - the cheapest food is the most processed and calorific, even leaving aside food deserts etc.

[Arnoldthecat]

There seems to be a conflict. We have foodbanks and self interest groups like the JRF telling us how much poverty there is in the UK and yet we are also told that the UK is second only to USA in world obesity tables.

[Halloumimuffin]

The trust who run all the food banks are owned by Tory donors and mates and operate on a profiteering franchise system. It is in our governments interest to keep them in business.

[wafflyversatile]

But it's the poor who are to blame! The poor!

[HellAndDegenerates]

we already pay so much tax

My old boss, multi millionaire, owned several businesses, fleet of luxury cars etc etc. Paid less tax most years than the minimum wage cleaner and happily bragged about it.
Accountants know loop holes and tricks to avoid tax for the wealthy.
I don't know the details of my ex boss but some said he gave himself a wage of below Minimum and topped it up with untaxable dividend payments.
This was 20+ years ago tho.

[wafflyversatile]

And we shouldn't be means testing council housing. Housing estates shouldn't be dumps for the poorest people. It's good to have diverse communities.

So much wrong with that post I can't even.

[wafflyversatile]

We don't pay 'so much' tax. The poor pay proportionately more tax than the rich. Many of us can be a bit less personally well off to allow the worst off to be a bit better off.

It's not overgenerosity to the poor that is the problem, it's over generosity to the rich that is the problem.

[user1471453601]

@Elanor Lavish, who, in your opinion were given too much, and by whom?

[givemesteel]

The thing is, I don't know what the likes of Lenny Henry expect to happen, we already pay so much tax, I don't think you can expect the tax payer to shoulder any more tax burden and we shouldn't be borrowing more so future generations pay for today's problem.

I think the issue is that we have a benefits system which is not generous enough to some but too generous to others, eg -

• our tax system subsidises people who only work 16 hours a week (tax credits) so these people are officially 'working' but only actually work 2 full days a week. I would be interested to know how many 'working' families actually only have one adult who works 16 hours a week.

• every week there is a thread on Mumsnet about someone committing benefit fraud because they claim they don't have a partner but really do. I've known people who've done this in the past and it's probably a lot more widespread than official govt estimates.

• we don't have the American system of forcing father's to pay for their kids so the state often picks up the tab.

• we don't have ongoing means testing of council houses / housing association accommodation so once you've got one you aren't asked to leave even when you're on your feet and earning a decent wage (eg Bob Crowe), they even get automatically passed down to your kids, who might become an investment banker.

Just a few examples of what is, in my opinion a broken system.

I would love to have a benefits system that gives those who genuinely can't work due to illness or disability a really decent life but we have to accept that we can't do this for everyone, especially those who are able bodied and could work / work more hours than they do.

BTW the nurse on £22k using food banks is indeed a stupid example. In my first job, in London, I earned £18k, £4k less than the nurse who was not in London otherwise would be on £27k starting salary, and still easily feed myself. Agree with pp, some food bank use, at least (not all) is down to poor budgeting.

[HellAndDegenerates]

The state still gives people enough to eat each week, plus housing benefit, not having to pay council tax

Universal credit payments.
£317.82 - standard allowance
£277.08 - Support for 1 child

These are typical monthly payments before housing element.

Ignore rent for moment and it's about £595 to pay gas, electric, council tax, insurance, TV license, internet as it's a necessity for Universal Credit, travelling expenses for visiting job centre weekly, food and any other bills that crop up.

With housing element it depends on lots of variables but as an example:
Single claimant aged under 25: £251.77 per month.
Single claimant aged 25 or over: £317.82 per month.
Joint claimants both aged under 25: £395.20 per month.
Joint claimants either aged 25 or over: £498.89 per month

Which as you can see is way, way, way below typical rents.

So from that £595 that's used as already listed you may have to use a portion of it to make up rental shortfall.

So a quick example:
Mum aged 30 with a 7 year old.
Gets the £595 as above + £317 housing + £80 a month CB.
Call it a square £1000 a month
Rent on her 2 bed is £500

£500 left
Council tax contribution £50
Gas £50
Electric £50
Internet £40
Food £100
TV license £10

Only £200 left already before travelling expenses, insurance, stuff for child, etc etc.

I can see how people end up at food banks, imagine your child needing new shoes or specific uniform items from specific shops etc.

It doesn't work out much better for people working low paid jobs either. Universal credit goes down the more you earn so she could earn £600 a month and only be £200 better off which will be eaten with child care fees which she must pay out of her pocket and claim back from Universal Credit at 85%

[isseywithcats]

its not always bad budgeting skills its not having the money to start with
, i was working full time and with working tax credits had enough money to pay all my bills and eat properly,

my hours were then cut so i lost my WTC and ended up trying to run the same house with the same bills on half the income i had before, out of £740 a month income i had to find £100 a month shortfall on my housing benefit which was the only benefit i got, then £12 a month council tax ( had been 0 before) then all the normal gas (allowed myself £10 a week), electric ( allowed myself £5 a week), water rates, broadband, television licence,

and each week i was left with £15 yes £15 a week to feed myself, how many people can do that walk round a shop and spend £15 for a whole week and eat well , but i did it and too proud to go to a food bank i couldnt have gone in there

and as i was working i probably wouldnt have got a refer to it anyway, god help me if my shoes got a hole in them that was an £8 pair of pumps from asda so that left me £7 that week to eat or no heating in the house at all let alone use the cooker ,

no going out anywhere, no take out anythings, no new clothes, no luxuries of any sort, a treat was a 25p asda chocolate bar

that is the reality of being on low wages and low income in the UK, im better off now as i have two part time jobs and a partner i live with but having been there its not a life of riley by any means

[otterturk]

@HelenaDove I had no idea. I don't know anyone in receipt of any support payments; my friends don't have kids yet so not even CB.

[HelenaDove]

Dispatches has done an expose on another housing association.

Planned broadcast date................25th March.

//www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/hsxfk8/channel-4-dispatches/?fbclid=IwAR1LkqL40JMwmHzdiHm6xPdvKNEJHVBpN6WMD_b60zhpFFWuRrnrup_p5yg

Datshiane Navanayagam reveals the shocking conditions that tenants of one of Britain's biggest social landlords are being forced to live in. A year-long investigation finds that Sanctuary Housing left family homes in disrepair and uncovers evidence that this had a critical impact on the health of some of their most vulnerable tenants. As the housing association has grown, official channels of complaint have failed to force it to act reasonably, leaving residents feeling voiceless. In desperation they've turned to social media to share their experiences and offer support. Dispatches asks: are housing associations the new landlords from hell?
Cast & Crew
Reporter Datshiane Navanayagam
Director Lionel Mill
Producer Lionel Mill
Producer Kate Mead