And now we have food banks . . .

[longwayoff]

Just saw Lenny Henry reminiscing 30 years of Comic Relief. And, as he said,if you'd told him then he'd be here years later raising money for food banks in the UK he would have refused to believe it. Quite rightly, me too. We're still one if the wealthiest countries in the world. Why aren't we more ashamed of this disgraceful development?

My take on it is the change in how people can claim benefits when unemployed these days. Back in my young days anyone could claim ‘dole’ with no need to prove they were actually looking for work, and was often a lifestŷle choice for some. That’s no longer the case. If you sign up for job seekers now you have to provide evidence of applying for jobs and have to go for any available jobs that are out there, or you are sanctioned. I’ve seen an increase in beggars on the street who are probably victims of this - don’t want to work but obviously need to get money another way. And I speak as someone who has an adult son in the same position - not interested in working at the moment but refuses to apply for job seekers because he doesnt want to go through motions of applying for work. Hoping the fact that he is penniless will make him get his lazy arse into gear!

Sadly a lot of people have piss-poor budgeting skills. I doubt that it will ever change - how can it?

We can teach children how to manage money at school. That would be a good start. Improved numeracy would be a great help, too - the number of people who simply don't get how things like credit card interest works, or how to work out a budget, is shocking.

When I was a frontline support worker, I used to spend an awful lot of time teaching people these skills.

The abolition of crisis loans and the introduction of universal credit has made things far worse. Under legacy benefits, only one benefit could be cocked up at a time. If your child tax credits stopped, you still had your housing benefit in place so you didn't end up losing your home, too. Now, a family can lose all their income bar child benefit (and wages, if working) in one fell swoop.

@otterturk

Obviously lots of scenarios are different.
But with UC you get a personal allowance, an allowance for housing, possibly children's allowance or childcare allowance depending on circumstances, and possible carers or disability allowance.
But the biggest problem I see is the rent you are awarded for a property is not always the same as the rent itself.
Each area has a set amount of maximum rent, but in a lot of areas in the UK the maximum rent allowance is no where near enough to actually compete with the prices of privately rent.
Example, somewhere south east could say their maximum rent allowance for a month is £800. But the cheapest property you can find is £1200 a month (completely made up figures but not unrealistic from what ive heard) so you have to pay the extra £400 a month to up rent out of the rest of your money, but that money was supposed to be for food, gas, electric, TV license, petrol, clothes, mobile phones etc.
So you just never have enough money to pay all your bills.
Benefit caps are also in force now and that also includes rent allowance.

Unless you are fortunate enough to live in a housing association property the sheer cost of keeping a roof over your head will mean that many people are a step away from needing a food bank if anything at all upsets their economic applecart.

Especially, as previous posters have said, since the advent of UC.

And housing benefit doesn’t come close to paying for private rentals.

I work with young families and the difference between those with secure, affordable housing and those without it is immense.

Until working families have secure homes which they can afford I have no doubt that we will continue to need food banks .

(How is it reasonable that many families pay more in rent each month than a mortgage would cost them for the same house which they can’t raise a deposit for? I put this on brackets because it’s a bit of a tangent, but still. )

Hadn’t seen your post @MsHopey, but as you can see above - totally agree with you.

Austerity had nothing to do with overspending, we aren't saving any money and national debt has risen by 64%.

Austerity has a lot to do with overspending, overspending and other causes got us into this mess. Please explain how you're supposed to reduce debt if you're in a deficit? Debt will always go up until you're in a surplus.

Example:

Budget deficit in 2010: £103 BILLION
Budget deficit in 2018: £1.9 BILLION

That's what austerity has been paying for, for the past 9 years, to reduce the budget deficit.

It’s not austerity that’s paid down the deficit - caused not by overspending but a global financial crisis - it’s the poorest and most vulnerable in our society who have paid it. While the bankers who caused it continue to live in luxury.

Unless you are fortunate enough to live in a housing association property

Watch Channel 4s Dispatches on 25th March.

@otterturk Everyone has to pay some council tax now. Hadnt you heard?!

Oh dear @HelenaDove - more bad news ?

Dispatches has done an expose on another housing association.

Planned broadcast date................25th March.

www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/hsxfk8/channel-4-dispatches/?fbclid=IwAR1LkqL40JMwmHzdiHm6xPdvKNEJHVBpN6WMD_b60zhpFFWuRrnrup_p5yg

Datshiane Navanayagam reveals the shocking conditions that tenants of one of Britain's biggest social landlords are being forced to live in. A year-long investigation finds that Sanctuary Housing left family homes in disrepair and uncovers evidence that this had a critical impact on the health of some of their most vulnerable tenants. As the housing association has grown, official channels of complaint have failed to force it to act reasonably, leaving residents feeling voiceless. In desperation they've turned to social media to share their experiences and offer support. Dispatches asks: are housing associations the new landlords from hell?
Cast & Crew
Reporter Datshiane Navanayagam
Director Lionel Mill
Producer Lionel Mill
Producer Kate Mead

@HelenaDove I had no idea. I don't know anyone in receipt of any support payments; my friends don't have kids yet so not even CB.

its not always bad budgeting skills its not having the money to start with
, i was working full time and with working tax credits had enough money to pay all my bills and eat properly,

  my hours were then cut so i lost my WTC and ended up trying to run the same house with the same bills on half the income i had before, out of £740 a month income i had to find £100 a month shortfall on my housing benefit which was the only benefit i got, then £12 a month council tax ( had been 0 before) then all the normal gas (allowed myself £10 a week), electric ( allowed myself £5 a week), water rates, broadband, television licence,

  and each week i was left with £15 yes £15 a week to feed myself, how many people can do that walk round a shop and spend £15 for a whole week and eat well , but i did it and too proud to go to a food bank i couldnt have gone in there

 and as i was working i probably wouldnt have got a refer to it anyway, god help me if my shoes got a hole in them that was an £8 pair of pumps from asda so that left me £7 that week to eat or no heating in the house at all let alone use the cooker ,

  no going out anywhere, no take out anythings, no new clothes, no luxuries of any sort, a treat was a 25p asda chocolate bar

   that is the reality of being on low wages and low income in the UK, im better off now as i have two part time jobs and a partner i live with but having been there its not a life of riley by any means

The state still gives people enough to eat each week, plus housing benefit, not having to pay council tax

Universal credit payments.
£317.82 - standard allowance
£277.08 - Support for 1 child

These are typical monthly payments before housing element.

Ignore rent for moment and it's about £595 to pay gas, electric, council tax, insurance, TV license, internet as it's a necessity for Universal Credit, travelling expenses for visiting job centre weekly, food and any other bills that crop up.

With housing element it depends on lots of variables but as an example:
Single claimant aged under 25: £251.77 per month.
Single claimant aged 25 or over: £317.82 per month.
Joint claimants both aged under 25: £395.20 per month.
Joint claimants either aged 25 or over: £498.89 per month

Which as you can see is way, way, way below typical rents.

So from that £595 that's used as already listed you may have to use a portion of it to make up rental shortfall.

So a quick example:
Mum aged 30 with a 7 year old.
Gets the £595 as above + £317 housing + £80 a month CB.
Call it a square £1000 a month
Rent on her 2 bed is £500

£500 left
Council tax contribution £50
Gas £50
Electric £50
Internet £40
Food £100
TV license £10

Only £200 left already before travelling expenses, insurance, stuff for child, etc etc.

I can see how people end up at food banks, imagine your child needing new shoes or specific uniform items from specific shops etc.

It doesn't work out much better for people working low paid jobs either. Universal credit goes down the more you earn so she could earn £600 a month and only be £200 better off which will be eaten with child care fees which she must pay out of her pocket and claim back from Universal Credit at 85%

The thing is, I don't know what the likes of Lenny Henry expect to happen, we already pay so much tax, I don't think you can expect the tax payer to shoulder any more tax burden and we shouldn't be borrowing more so future generations pay for today's problem.

I think the issue is that we have a benefits system which is not generous enough to some but too generous to others, eg -

• our tax system subsidises people who only work 16 hours a week (tax credits) so these people are officially 'working' but only actually work 2 full days a week. I would be interested to know how many 'working' families actually only have one adult who works 16 hours a week.

• every week there is a thread on Mumsnet about someone committing benefit fraud because they claim they don't have a partner but really do. I've known people who've done this in the past and it's probably a lot more widespread than official govt estimates.

• we don't have the American system of forcing father's to pay for their kids so the state often picks up the tab.

• we don't have ongoing means testing of council houses / housing association accommodation so once you've got one you aren't asked to leave even when you're on your feet and earning a decent wage (eg Bob Crowe), they even get automatically passed down to your kids, who might become an investment banker.

Just a few examples of what is, in my opinion a broken system.

I would love to have a benefits system that gives those who genuinely can't work due to illness or disability a really decent life but we have to accept that we can't do this for everyone, especially those who are able bodied and could work / work more hours than they do.

BTW the nurse on £22k using food banks is indeed a stupid example. In my first job, in London, I earned £18k, £4k less than the nurse who was not in London otherwise would be on £27k starting salary, and still easily feed myself. Agree with pp, some food bank use, at least (not all) is down to poor budgeting.

@Elanor Lavish, who, in your opinion were given too much, and by whom?

We don't pay 'so much' tax. The poor pay proportionately more tax than the rich. Many of us can be a bit less personally well off to allow the worst off to be a bit better off.

It's not overgenerosity to the poor that is the problem, it's over generosity to the rich that is the problem.

And we shouldn't be means testing council housing. Housing estates shouldn't be dumps for the poorest people. It's good to have diverse communities.

So much wrong with that post I can't even.

we already pay so much tax

My old boss, multi millionaire, owned several businesses, fleet of luxury cars etc etc. Paid less tax most years than the minimum wage cleaner and happily bragged about it.
Accountants know loop holes and tricks to avoid tax for the wealthy.
I don't know the details of my ex boss but some said he gave himself a wage of below Minimum and topped it up with untaxable dividend payments.
This was 20+ years ago tho.

But it's the poor who are to blame! The poor!

The trust who run all the food banks are owned by Tory donors and mates and operate on a profiteering franchise system. It is in our governments interest to keep them in business.

There seems to be a conflict. We have foodbanks and self interest groups like the JRF telling us how much poverty there is in the UK and yet we are also told that the UK is second only to USA in world obesity tables.

arnold poverty and obesity go hand in hand - the cheapest food is the most processed and calorific, even leaving aside food deserts etc.

We need to stop blaming the people that pay tax or the people that need benefits and start blaming the big businesses who pay too little to the workers, the governments which allow it, and the pyramid scheme where everything (including food banks, charities, ha etc) is about making profit not about redistribution of wealth.

The current answer seems to be to bill the people who have a little bit more (eg earning £40k or whatever the high rate tax band is, or making it so everyone regardless pays council tax) but leave the ones earning £100k plus to it.

*arnold poverty and obesity go hand in hand - the cheapest food is the most processed and calorific, even leaving aside food deserts etc."

I think it has more to do with lack of education and basic skills than food costs. Base ingredients are inexpensive. Buying boxes and packets/ready meals and takeaways is expensive. Obesity is a modern epidemic . Its linked to buying prepared foods. Why do people buy them when they are nutritionally questionable and expensive? Becuase they know no better/are lazy/cant cook/wont cook/have learned this from their parent(s) .

I would make it compulsory in all our schools in primary and upwards to teach cookery/home economics and finance.