To wonder why we can’t possibly have another referendum yet Theresa May can have as many votes as needed in order to return the ‘right’ answer

[Bearbehind]

Just that really.

I’m not even massively in favour of another referendum as it’s clear views are so entrenched the result probably won’t change.

But for Theresa May to insist the result of the referendum must be honoured whilst simultaneously re-running votes on the Withdrawal Agreement until she gets the answer she wants is mind boggling.

It’s not even a good basis for a deal - all the rules and very little freedom.

Leavers - is this what you wanted?

Are you happy with this fiasco?

Right now the only choice should be no deal, and let everyone see the devastating it’s going to cause, or revoke.

It's OK because it's not the same thing.

One was the single question put to the electorate for determination.

The manner of carrying out the people's decision is something which can be open to negotiation and renegotiation until something acceptable is found, which takes us out of EU.

A plan which recreates something akin to the old EEC and solves Ireland on Schengen membership (there is already a two tier system, which couid be amended) might be the best way. But I don't think there is enough time, and we're rather stuck with May v2.1

The manner of carrying out the people's decision is something which can be open to negotiation and renegotiation until something acceptable is found, which takes us out of EU

But just re-asking the same question until you get the right answer is nothing like finding something acceptable.

Are Leavers really conditioned to the extent they don’t see this now?

It's a travesty and absolutely stinks. Imagine the bribery and legalese going on now behind the scenes to get it through.

Taking back control? Democracy? My arse. I feel completely disenfranchised and voiceless.

I couldn't agree more, OP. I said exactly this earlier today.

Yes crazy isn’t it.

Im glad its not just me that doesnt understand it. The whole brexit thing is complicated anyway but I can pick up on the little things but it changes so much I never know what's going on really.

Yanbu

I totally agree with you and think they've dealt with it in a really shitty way

YANBU. I said the same yesterday. We can’t change our minds as that would be undemocratic, but parliament must change theirs otherwise it’s undemocratic. People’s Vote doesn’t even want to ask the same question, so it’s much more like trying to find a way to make things work.

Because parliament voted against another referendum yesterday which was asked as an amendment to the withdrawal extension vote. Interesting how labour MPs were told not to vote, so they didn’t and then when the withdrawal extension was passed the idiot Corbyn stood up and said he wanted a People’s vote, on what who knows

As regards Mays bill as a leaver I agree it should not happen, but then MPs are following the will of the country that said leave after a referendum.

And before any Remainers start I, along with the rest of the leavers are fully aware of what we voted for, and what it means.

Perhaps Remainers could tell me why we are going to wreck the future of our children and grandchildren by leaving? We don’t know for sure what’s going to happen, and not saying it’s not going to be tough to start with. But just remember the doom and gloom at the referendum and what was going to happen if we voted leave, I am still waiting for the emergency budget Georgie boy said would be required.

As I see it we get back our fishing industry, we get to trade with whoever we want, and lots are waiting and willing to trade with us, we get back money we put into basket case economies in the eu, and we can still give the same subsidises we get now and re invest the rest into this country, schools, nhs, armed forces etc. We are not bound by the ecj who over rule good decisions our courts have made, we won’t be told what size hoover we can have, we keep existing eu regulations but can now make our own rather than have to adhere to a one size fits all ( and let’s be honest lots of the other eu counties ignore them).

I know they keep threatening we can’t fly over their air space, but they then can’t fly over ours, we can’t have access to their terrorist information, but a lot of not most comes via our systems here, so actually they won’t be getting information either.

I firmly believe we can all still work together on important issues, but we originally signed up to a common market, which I would still be 8n favour off, everything else has been done to us and by stealth. We are simply taking back our own destiny and not sharing it with 27 completely different counties with their own set of complex issues we don’t need to be involved in when we have our own

As regards immigration then as far as I am concerned anyone is welcome here who can support themselves and contribute to our society and economy ( I do object to eu country nationals coming here and getting child benefit that is promptly sent home to their home country when it could and should be spent in our economy) Eu students can still come here, as they do in Australia etc and work summers, there is lots that can be done

Now Remainers start telling me how wrong I am, how aweful I am and a plaque of deaths on me

As I see it we get back our fishing industry

Our own government sold our quotas.

we get to trade with whoever we want, and lots are waiting and willing to trade with us

Please tell me who we can now trade with that we couldn’t before

we get back money we put into basket case economies in the eu, and we can still give the same subsidises we get now and re invest the rest into this country, schools, nhs, armed forces etc.

Please tell me why we’ve not already invested in those areas.

We are not bound by the ecj who over rule good decisions our courts have made

Please tell me what decisions have ever affected you

we won’t be told what size hoover we can have, we keep existing eu regulations but can now make our own rather than have to adhere to a one size fits all ( and let’s be honest lots of the other eu counties ignore them).

Please tell me which company you think is going to make more powerful hoovers for the UK market only, especially when reduced power doesn’t even affect performance.

Chloemol from your post, you are literally the stereotypical Leaver who has fallen for the nonsense that has got us here.

It is perfectly legitimate for her to put her deal again - now no deal is supposedly off the table, things have changed.

That is also true of leave v remain. It would not be undemocratic at all to have a second vote now - in fact it’s quite undemocratic to say people are stuck with it whether the electorate still wants it or not.

It would have been undemocratic to rerun the referendum two years ago because we didn’t like the result. The govt was duty bound to try to implement it. The govt has done so, using no small amount of public resources. However on any view it hasn’t gone to plan, and it is ridiculous to say it would be undemocratic to go back to the people in light of the developments.

I couldn’t bear a second referendum personally but no way is it undemocratic.

@ bearbehind
You are the typical remainer, who truly believes in a Eu utopia then. At the moment the Eu won’t let us trade with just anyone, it has to be agreed across the block, remember the Canada deal? 7 years in the making and almost scuppered by a small group of Belgians!

Ecj, personally no, but others have ( and unlike you I happen to care what presidents have been set) and it has affected some laws

Pick on the example and not the actual point, the Eu telling us what to do, one size fits all, and it doesn’t, just ask those in the other 27 countries

Fishing, we get our quotas back though

Typical remainer response, so scared to go it alone, have to be with our buddies at all times hey

Chloemol reading posts like yours is what makes this process so utterly demoralising.

It’s a pretty useless deal anyway - accepting any and every new EU regulation until we finally ‘leave’, without even being allowed in the room wtf. It would almost be funny if it wasn’t so serious.

@Figmentofmyimagination. I apologise wholeheartedly for having an opinion that is so different to yours

Chloemol looks every inch the typical Russian bot. From the phrase "Eu (sic) utopia", to not quite right English (setting presidents). I daresay they'll be out in force the more it looks like Putin's precious Brexit is under threat...

chloemol that doesn’t make it ok.

Oh ok - I should have spotted that.

Bearbehind.

You start a thread like this almost every week.

@ cardinalsin. I am real, I live in the uk, just look my posting history. However I normally use a iPad, and predictive text is useless, as it the mumsnet message box if we are honest, others have complained. It would be much better if you could amend after posting. That’s my excuse anyway, thanks for the English class

Well maybe you shouldn't post like a bot then. That typical list of "reasonable sounding" complaints which have been shown to be utter rubbish repeatedly. Meaningless phrases like "EU utopia". This bollocks that apparently nobody has the faintest idea of anything that could possibly happen after we leave. It's all just so much bullshit, and we have seen it over and over again from the shills.

@ cardinalsin. Ooo have I hit a nerve then? Perhaps you should enlighten me! 😪😪😪😪😪

And before any Remainers start I, along with the rest of the leavers are fully aware of what we voted for, and what it means.

If true, that would make it worse, not better. But fortunately you don't speak for all Leavers.

Cos it's OK to change your mind if you're a politician. Just not if you're a member of the public.