International students & widespread cheating

[Pewdie]

Last year I was a masters student (MSc Management). Majority of the modules involved group work. Often times I found it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to communicate with my teammates. They would often confuse very basic models/terms and their emails, WhatsApp messages were intelligible and riddled with errors. However, when it came to producing the actual assignments the standard would be incredibly high. I understand people perform differently in different contexts in how people perform varies in different contexts but I just can't believe there was nothing untoward going on. AIBU to suspect there is widespread plagiarism occurring at universities among rich, international students.

Just to note I am not bitter nor resentful. I have watched many international students agonise over assignments.

[amusedbush]

I should also say that a lot of postgrad courses don't ask for IELTS if a student has completed an undergrad degree in English. So theoretically if a student can coast their way through a BA using plagiarism/translation/coasting on classmates' work they can progress to a Masters and beyond without question.

[HolyForkingShirt]

Thing is, how does this work with getting jobs in the UK? Once you go to a job interview, you'll be rumbled when the interviewer realises you can't speak English.

Or do these students just go home and then get the top jobs because they have a fancy British degree, with no-one back home questioning their fluency in English?

[TheFirstOHN]

In my year group at medical school there were several international students. One took several years longer than the rest of us to complete her degree, because she would fail the year, fail the resits and then have to retake the whole year. This didn't just happen once but several times. At the time I wondered whether she was being permitted to do this because the university wanted her (higher) tuition fees.

[shockthemonkey]

Not at all surprised. I have been approached by three different families who thought that I might like to have an interesting sideline in essay-writing to order. For their kids struggling in UK universities.

I refused of course, but am sure they quickly found an alternative provider.

There are many companies about who offer this service. Essays are priced by the page and also by the result, ie you can order a three-page 2:1 essay, or, if you're feeling flush, you can get a ten-page thesis guaranteed to score a first.

[LittleKitty1985]

@shockthemonkey What are the prices?

[SileneOliveira]

I'm a freelance writer. I often get approached by students asking me for help with essays.

I have standards though! I am happy to proofread a thesis or dissertation and correct the English. In nearly all cases the subject is something I know nothing about so wouldn't be able to tweak the content even if I tried. But I don't see a problem in asking for help with English expression, spelling and grammar.

I did once get an email from a student saying that he was a uni student in my city, couldn't do his dissertation, could we meet up so he could share his notes and i could do it for him? Unluckily for him, he was studying on a very niche course and one of my friends is a tutor in the same department. So I shopped him to her and he got into a whole heap of trouble over it.

It happens lots. The money for correcting SPAG for foreign students isn't great, but writing assignments can be. It's not plagiarism which is copying someone else's work, it's more passing someone else's work off as your own. There are lots of writers out there who are struggling, and who are prepared to prepare a "model essay" knowing fine well that it will be turned in as the student's own work.

[woodhill]

I think in general the standard of English leaves a lot to desired.

[woodhill]

I mean in UK education

[OftenHangry]

I am a non native student and I am sometimes absolutely baffled by people who can't string a sentence together and can't often understand basic terms actually get good grades. And how they passed their IELTS to required level.
I suspect few of the English classmates use the services too tbh.

The tutors surely know what's happening, but what can they do? Uni doesn't want bad press and high drop out rate.

[ArtisanPopcorn]

I work in PG admissions. Applicants from some African countries can get out of taking an English test by providing a letter from their previous African university confirming they were taught in English.

There was a scandal a few years ago about cheating in TOEFL exams.

[Ghanagirl]

@Pewdie
Is your post motivated by envy or bigotry?

[SileneOliveira]

Oh and on the price - can be anything from £20 to £100 per page (500 words) of an essay. Paying out £500 is no problem to very affluent students.

Most of the websites will advertise that they are producing draft copies which a student can use to base their own essay on, but everyone knows how it really works.

[donajimena]

There is a guy on our course whose written English is appalling. He puts the work in but most of it is nonsensical. He seems to be obtaining really good grades so I wonder if you don't actually lose that many marks for poor spelling and grammar?

[OftenHangry]

@donajimena we do apparently. At least I do. Commans and articles especially.

[shockthemonkey]

@LittleKitty1985, I honestly cannot remember but you can find these services easily by googling. Some are based in the US but distance hardly matters.

@Ghanagirl, c'mon.... wake up.

[shockthemonkey]

Hope this screenshot works. It's really shameless cheating.

[Birdsgottafly]

When I did my SW BA there were two students who were obviously cheating.

Both from the UK. One struggled on all of her placements, was really incompetent. She couldn't do anything on a computer and told us that her DH typed up her essays for her. We doubted that she was writing them. She knew nothing.

Another's DD, who was a SW, was most definitely writing her essays. She chose her placements well.

There were others that most definitely wasn't working without a lot of 'help'.

Which is an issue on Coursework Courses.

"Applicants from some African countries can get out of taking an English test by providing a letter from their previous African university confirming they were taught in English."

My Nigerian friend had to supply a letter. She'd taken a test in Nigeria to confirm that her English was good enough. But she spells things with an 'E' on the end. So, cot becomes cote etc. There are other mistakes.

I've seen her coursework, she came over on a Student Visa and she definitely didn't complete it independently. There are big gaps in her knowledge and her and her Nigerian Friends believe some dangerous stuff, considering they've all gone into health care or pharmacy.

[Pewdie]

Ghanagirl neither. No need to be envious as I have obtained a first-class law degree from UCL honestly. Also, watching the struggles of my immigrant parents has precluded me from holding bigoted views.

[PineapplePower]

Or do these students just go home and then get the top jobs because they have a fancy British degree, with no-one back home questioning their fluency in English?

Cannot speak for any other country but in China these degrees would be highly prized and obviously their lack of English skill would not hold them back in that context.

[Bezalelle]

It's inevitable, with higher education now being an industry.

Capitalism sucks.

[ErickBroch]

Used by international and domestic students. I knew people at University (2010-2013) who paid thousands for essays and even their dissertation to be written for them. They were British and from other countries.

[UnspiritualHome]

Just wondering if it counts as cheating if, say, the student does all the substantive work but gets help in cleaning up their English?

[GregoryPeckingDuck]

Where are you studying? Most of the international students on my course perform better than locals. A few really struggle with written tasks but they usually fail and repeat the year or do very poorly. If the international students on your course are not fluent then your university is being really unscrupulous in accepting their applications without verifying fluency,

[PeggySuehadababy]

I didn't study in the UK, but remember that one of my lecturer mentioned that my uni was trying to attract more foreign students to improve their ranking; we had different exams compared to foreign students (they were harder and we complained on several occasions).