International students & widespread cheating

[Pewdie]

Last year I was a masters student (MSc Management). Majority of the modules involved group work. Often times I found it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to communicate with my teammates. They would often confuse very basic models/terms and their emails, WhatsApp messages were intelligible and riddled with errors. However, when it came to producing the actual assignments the standard would be incredibly high. I understand people perform differently in different contexts in how people perform varies in different contexts but I just can't believe there was nothing untoward going on. AIBU to suspect there is widespread plagiarism occurring at universities among rich, international students.

Just to note I am not bitter nor resentful. I have watched many international students agonise over assignments.

[MariaNovella]

Presumably if you are up to speed on the syllabus of A level or GCSE, it doesn’t take long to bang out an essay?

[GallicosCats]

Have idly wondered if anyone's ever sold their low 2:1 dissertation to someone else afterwards and had them get a First? Wouldn't surprise me after what I've read here.

[VelvetPineapple]

Firstly there’s a different educational culture in other countries. Unlike in the UK where we prize originality, other countries prize rote learning and repetition. The correct answer is to copy verbatim what the teacher (or another authority) says. Your own opinions are irrelevant and not to be included. Then these students come to the UK and are told off for copying directly from lecture notes or textbooks, and they’re puzzled because they think that’s what you’re supposed to do? And they’re being asked to write their own original analysis which in their home country is the last thing you’d do.

Secondly, international students tend to be wealthy in their home country (which is how they can afford to study abroad). So sometimes there’s an expectation that everything can be bought, especially if that sort of cheating is common in their home country. And other times they cheat to avoid the sheer shame they would feel about failing such an expensive course. Perhaps their parents would be disappointed or angry if they failed. Or perhaps (this was common among Chinese students) the entire extended family had clubbed together to send one person to university in the UK, and they’re supposed to pass and earn highly so they can pay it back and fund the education of the next family member in line, and so on. If they fail they’re letting everyone down and that’s unthinkable.

[woodcutbirds]

I know a lecturer who gave fail grades to some first year foreign students whose English wasn't up to the mark and there was an intervention from the university. He was told to give them passes on the condition they signed up for (extra cost) additional languages sessions. The uni didn't want to lose the vast income. Education and academic development weren't the priority, profit was.

[SisyphusHadItEasy]

I am currently studying engineering at a school with a very high percentage of international students.

The cheating is rampant. Absolutely flagrant. It disgusts me. But... the international students pay three times the tuition. Do you really wonder why the administration looks the other way?

[TapasForTwo]

"Unlike in the UK where we prize originality, other countries prize rote learning and repetition."

Interesting points VelvetPineapple

OH advises Chinese and Koreans and finds that they cannot think for themselves, and have no initiative at all. They need to be told what to do and have their hand held all the time.

Yes, there is the "losing face" aspect among the Chinese isn't there.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Nothing will change because the universities are dependent on overseas students' cash

This ^^

A PP asked if they don't get caught out when applying for jobs, and of course they do. IME, though, the main problem comes when an applicant has good spoken English but is poor at writing, which happens more often than I used to think

Which can be why some employers still insist on a handwritten application, then check the script against something produced at an assessment day or whatever

[VelvetPineapple]

woodcutbirds I was never allowed to deduct marks for poor English. I had to mark based on content only. Even if the writer was a native speaker! Marks are supposed to be based on how well the student knows the material, not how well they express their understanding in writing.

[SheeshazAZ09]

It is a serious problem, and what is scary is that it is a massive problem in medical degrees obtained in foreign countries outside of the UK. It may also apply to UK-based medical degrees, I don't know.

My informant, a qualified doctor and radiologist who works in hospitals, was telling me about some doctors he worked with who got their qualifications in other countries. He said they could barely speak English and clearly had no understanding of the basics of medicine. Racism is not at work here. This doctor is himself an immigrant who has chosen to take British citizenship. He trained and got his medical degree here in the UK and worked super-hard for it, so he was annoyed at the abuses that go on.

He found out that in the 'problem' countries there is a market in medical qualifications whereby you pay someone else to sit your exams for you and write your essays. Then you get your qualification, come to the UK, and practice medicine.

What makes this especially terrifying is that patients' lives are in the care of these people.

On a related note I was once offered a job writing students' essays for them, by a firm that acted as a broker for that work. When they first approached me I thought it was just editing (dodgy enough if it extends into 'clarifying their thinking'), but on further inquiry it turned out to be actually researching and writing the essays from scratch. I told them I couldn't live with myself if I did that and turned the job down. The money being offered was good.

[TapasForTwo]

Just for once I wish the media would pick this story up.

[Songsofexperience]

The problem is the students who literally cannot speak English.

Those students have simply no place at a British university. That's not even about them cheating- it's down to the institutions not doing their job properly.

[woodcutbirds]

Sorry Velvet I should have made it clear: they were studying English as a Foreign Language!

[Ali1cedowntherabbithole]

IME the policies are really inconsistent too. Last masters module I did, an Aussie student, resident in the UK, had to jump through hoops to demonstrate her English Language skills, despite existing Bsc/MSc qualifications.

Meanwhile an overseas student with poor verbal English, who struggled to understand the instructions for group work drifted in part time. I’ve no idea if he achieved his qualification, but I’m sure as sure he didn’t earn it.

[woodhill]

That's just awful Sheejaz especially when lives are at risk.

[Xmasbaby11]

This doesn't surprise me. I work at a RG university in the EFL department teaching international students before and during their studies. They tend to focus really hard on getting their ielts score but they don't actually think about applying their English. Universities accept too many international students for the money - they don't consider the wider impact it has.

[AfterSchoolWorry]

They're using essay mills.

[borntobequiet]

We have the opposite problem with apprentices. They may be doing very well in their apprenticeship, but need to obtain English Functional Skills Level 2 for the framework and encounter difficulty. They may be perfectly able to read an instruction manual, but have problems writing a grammatically correct and well spelled letter to the local council about potholes, or a review of a local tourist attraction. TBF in the end, with support, most pass, but it seems to be a case of double standards wrt FE/HE.

[MariaNovella]

IELTS Writing component just isn’t demanding enough. I think it should a (difficult) Use of English cloze test - they are really quite good at reliably sorting the wheat from the chaff.

[liviii]

I write to a much higher standard for work than i would on watsapp

I'm tempted to post screenshots. 50% of my last group's messages simply did not make sense. I remember asking a very simple yes/no question and this was still beyond the grasp of one particular group member. And this is at a supposedly top London uni.

[MissEliza]

I used to teach abroad and a group of us decided to do a distance learning Post graduate level course with a university in the UK. One local employee, who was from a very rich family, decided to do it as well. We used to organise study groups and noticed that she really struggled, with the concepts and English language. Everybody gave her loads of help but we obviously weren't going to help her in the written work. We were surprised but happy for her when she got a B grade.
As a result of her new qualification, the school gave her extra responsibility working with infant pupils struggling to read. She had to write progress reports but the SENCO constantly sent them back because of poor English. She then confided in me she was going to get the same lady she had paid to write her assignments to write her reports!! I kept her secret but I was angry. Not only is it cheating but she ended up getting a role she wasn't capable of as a result.
Thanks to Facebook, I see she has now gone onto get a Masters, which was the next step. I'm bloody sure she didn't do her assignments for that by herself.

[dangerrabbit]

My brother used to work for an essay writing service back in 2008 so these things have been going on a while.

[onthenaughtystepagain]

More frightening, cheating in certain sections of the populations is very wide-spead in driving tests.

[givemesteel]

Universities need to start doing viva voces at the end of the degree. My undergraduate university (RG) did these on 10% of their students usually picked because they were on the borderline between two degree classes and the outcome could affect whether you got the higher or lower class.

You had to do an oral interview on your dissertation topic and the degree course overall. I didn't have one but know people that did.

Doing that would obviously make it easier to ascertain whether someone has the ll anguage to write to the standard they've handed in and have in depth knowledge of their dissertation subject.

But as pp say, it sounds like it's just an open secret that universities turn a blind eye to as they want the cash.

[nometal]

They need the cash.

[goose1964]

One thing I'd like to put out is that it is possible to be unsure of speaking another language but be able to write and read at a much higher level.