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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

That instrumental delivery should be banned?

411 replies

PineapplePower · 12/03/2019 09:19

I know it’s the DM but this is shocking:

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6797199/As-doctors-midwives-finally-act-searing-expos-childbirths-shameful-secret.html

They say 10 percent of mums suffer from some sort of anal incontinence! Claims forceps are the biggest cause so why are they still used? AIBU to say they should be banned? Why couldn’t you just get a C-sec at that point?

OP posts:
herethereandeverywhere · 12/03/2019 20:17

Sarah22xx minimising the experiences of others, through inferring it would not bother you, is neither kind nor clever, particularly regarding a subject such of childbirth.

Grow some empathy, grow up, or take your 'omg wow' to another forum, hun.
Biscuit

Dreamingofkfc · 12/03/2019 20:20

@Dinosapple - that is awful. One of the very basics in midwifery is ensuring an empty bladder :(

deadsexy · 12/03/2019 20:23

Why are they still used?? FFS I'm sure they don't do it for fun!!

Sarah22xx · 12/03/2019 20:24

I had a forcep delivery myself and I'm hardly minimising when I'm saying how I felt fucking he'll can't say anything without being berated.

herethereandeverywhere · 12/03/2019 20:28

Why are they still used?? FFS I'm sure they don't do it for fun!!

-To save money
-To ensure a particular outcome for statistical purposes

  • It's inevitable because of poor labour management and care

Naively assuming that it's necessary is as unhelpful as dismissing the discussion by stating they don't do it for fun.
Biscuit

fluffylittleclouds · 12/03/2019 20:30

@Dreamingofkfc could that be down to hospital guidelines though? I know 3 other women who had Keillands at the same mat unit as myself, that’s maybe out of a dozen or so women I know who have had babies in the last few years. The minority but enough that it seems standard practice there. Do some hospitals maybe favour them more than others?

WeeBean · 12/03/2019 20:32

I'm actually really disturbed by how many people think it has to be choice between a live baby and long lasting injuries for the mother! Obviously everyone wants a healthy live baby but why should the mum have to live with lasting injuries as a result when it seems a C-section could have meant both a healthy baby and healthy mum in so many of these cases?

So many posters have eloquently written about the impact instrumental delivery has had on their physical and mental health (and in some cases that of their babies) and people are still saying healthy baby is all that matters 🙄

herethereandeverywhere · 12/03/2019 20:41

Sorry fluffylittleclouds (flc) I got your name wrong in my previous posts.
I was butchered in St Thomas's in 2009.

DinosApple · 12/03/2019 20:48

@Dreamingofkfc strangely, I am actually glad to hear that. Not in a 'Im going to sue way' but more that something did go awry, and I feel a bit more vindicated moaning about it. I wonder if it was noted as a fuck up or if anyone spoke to the mw to point out the mistake.

Now I'm also glad that despite the damage I opted for forceps at that stage! I mean I don't know if you can burst your bladder having a baby but I'm glad mine wasn't put to the test any longer than it was.
I still wish I'd kicked the doctor's teeth out when he asked if it hurt though.

fluffylittleclouds · 12/03/2019 20:48

The article also states that the risk of bad tearing and injuries/incontinence raises quite significantly with age. How many older expectant mums are told whether they have a heightened risk of this due to age? And told to consider ELCS risks against birth injuries?

InMyOwnParticularIdiom · 12/03/2019 20:59

Sorry not read the full thread but I imagine the low instrumental and Caesarian rate in Denmark is partly due to Danish people typically being tall. I do know that the nearby, also statuesque Dutch typically have little trouble giving birth, because the mothers are on average taller than the rest of Europeans, but the babies aren't any bigger.

(BTW, I'm 5'2 and needed forceps to get my 9lb 4 baby out, so I'm the opposite of a Dutchwoman.)

OvaHere · 12/03/2019 21:01

One thing that amazed me when I was pregnant with my first is that no one ever examined me to properly check if I was able to give birth naturally. No one looked at my pelvis or hips or indeed my vagina and I’m pretty small; I’m 5’2” quite slight, size 3 shoes.

This did used to be a thing. When I had my first child in the early 90s, I was in antenatal classes with a similarly petite woman who was booked in for a section for those reasons. I remember her saying something about the size of her feet (tiny). She did indeed have the section because we ended up on the postnatal ward at the same time.

I had an eight year gap between the first and second and I found the care to have gone considerably downhill in that period to such a degree I had home births for the last two children. I do sometimes worry how bad things have got now under the NHS and how much worse it might be for my DD if she has children.

I'm fortunate never to have suffered a birth injury or needed intervention but I have to say despite have no urinary continence issues directly following any birth I have still developed a slight issue a decade after the last pregnancy. I suspect the effects of having four children are not always fully escapable even if it's just down the line.

I feel a huge amount of sympathy for everyone on this thread who has had traumatic experiences. Flowers

Rosieposie9 · 12/03/2019 21:02

I was bullied into having forceps recently for absolutely no reason other than that the doctor had decided I had been pushing for too long and they weren't prepared to wait any longer. Baby was still perfectly happy and there was no 'need' for them to do it other than the fact it was coming towards their shift changeover and they wanted baby out quicker than she was coming. The doctor was vile to me at my most vulnerable point and suggested I was ridiculous for not agreeing to it straight away and that she knew best. I pointed out I didn't want the unnecessary risk of damage to my pelvic floor and she then told me that I was more likely to damage it if I carried on pushing without forceps. She even had a go at me for not listening to her because I shut my eyes during a contraction while she was lecturing me, she was a real delight! My baby wasn't stuck she just didn't come as quickly as they wanted. They faffed about prepping for theatre and she was delivered 2 contractions later with forceps but I honestly think she would have come of her own accord just as easily.

Unfortunately the forceps damaged my babies face she was totally black and blue, has facial palsy which we don't know whether will be permanent or not and she couldn't even feed for the first few days because of it. She still can't latch very well because of the damage caused. All because the doctor was getting impatient. I can understand the people who are put in a situation where their baby is at risk might see it as a necessity, but mine certainly wasn't and I was given very little choice in the matter.

Nairobe · 12/03/2019 21:08

So what do Denmark do differently if csection rates are low too?

The effects i had after birth i still have now, thankfully i have a great GP who supports me in getting help (counselling and physio), i believe the lack of support after is a big issue too.

My babies birth went from great to awful in just a few minutes in my opinion, my dh thinks there may have been an earlier warning but by the time things were awful it was too late for csection so forceps came into play. I just want a csection next time though i have friends damaged from them too.

categed · 12/03/2019 21:13

I had a section, choice after previous section and Lso baby was breach. I Lso hd forceps with my section 🤔🙄 i have some damage to bladder and bowel due to everything being moved about to try and get her as she was curled near my spine. I knew the risks with intervention but count myself lucky as wuthout the help and expertise if the staff both my girls would be dead.
Yes it's not great, however mine is manageable with care, some people are left with awful injuries.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 12/03/2019 21:20

That’s interestingOva: I had my first in 1994.

I would say having had 4 kids, I have had a very slight urinary urgency issue since menopause, though a little HRT and kegels seems to have resolved it.

Naively I never gave it any thought when planning number 4.

Fatted · 12/03/2019 21:26

It's not as easy as 'just having a section'.

As other PP have mentioned, forceps are still used in sections. With both of mine they had to use forceps because of the position of my babies.

C-sections also carry their own risks of complications and injury. One is not necessarily safer than the other.

OvaHere · 12/03/2019 21:28

Perhaps Tinkly it was a regional thing rather than across the board policy. This was in 1993.

Queenunikitty · 12/03/2019 21:35

herethereandeverywhere same here butchered at St Thomas’

Dreamingofkfc · 12/03/2019 21:37

@fluffylittleclouds I guess maybe some units might still use them but I am really shocked.....I certainly would refuse them.

@dinoapple I think you should raise a concern over the lack of pain relief. I'm so sorry that happened to you

Izzy24 · 12/03/2019 22:11

As other posters have mentioned- not all forceps are the same.

There is a huge difference between high rotational forceps where there is potential for a lot of damage - and also by definition the alternative of a c/s as the head is still high - and a lift out (when a c/s would be very difficult if not impossible).

It’s also an unpalatable truth that the skill of the operator depends on the amount of experience they have and there’s only one way to gain experience....

I think we have to look at the very high number of inductions as part of the problem. Especially for first babies this is not an easy experience and far more likely to need an epidural than a spontaneous labour. And epidurals increase the need for instrumental births.

LucyBabs · 13/03/2019 00:32

I was prepped for a c section on my second baby. I had only been given the induction drip minutes before. I felt confident that I wouldn't be left for hours and hours without intervention. My midwife told me almost all inductions end in c section in her experience. They didn't allow any woman go past 12 hours of labour without a c section. This was the national maternity hospital in Dublin. There's just no excuse for a woman to end up with awful long term health issues after giving birth. Early intervention should always be the first choice

Raspberrytruffle · 13/03/2019 00:50

I'm grateful that I received an instrumental delivery! Me and my child may have died if not . Confused

Nothinglefttochoose · 13/03/2019 04:26

Once the baby is past a certain point, there is basically no other option. What we should be getting up in arms about is why has the Dr or midwife not intervened before this point??? A c-section is better than a forceps/ episiotomy that results in incontinence, rectocele, cystocele or prolapse. That is the real issue.

Tinkerbell456 · 13/03/2019 06:02

Forceps really are a last resort. To not use them would very likely be the death of mother and child. As a student nurse, I saw loads of deliveries in my maternity experience, including a couple of forceps ones. Awful. However they really are avoided if at all possible, as indeed any intervention during birth is best avoided if possible. Sometimes it’s just not. In an ideal world, would all deliveries be completely non medical in any way. Sadly, the world ain’t ideal. I agree it would be horrible to have a birth injury like that, but it definitely beats material or baby death by a long piece of chalk! Also, many such issues can be fixed.