That instrumental delivery should be banned?

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I know it’s the DM but this is shocking:

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6797199/As-doctors-midwives-finally-act-searing-expos-childbirths-shameful-secret.html

They say 10 percent of mums suffer from some sort of anal incontinence! Claims forceps are the biggest cause so why are they still used? AIBU to say they should be banned? Why couldn’t you just get a C-sec at that point?

I had forceps for DDs birth - apparently they were just needed to turn her head and then she came out fairly easily, but DH said the doctor had his foot up on the bed!

DS was ventouse.

I'm just shit at giving birth I think!

I am very lucky that I havent had any long term effects from either delivery.

I gave birth four weeks ago. Beforehand, a c section was my worst nightmare. Due to baby being in distress I needed an emergency section and now the dust has settled, I'm honestly a bit glad. I've come out with no birth injuries other than a neat scar that has healed quickly. I've got no incontinence, no changes to my vagina, no tears. I have had no issues toileting, I was completely mobile within a week. We aren't having another but if we did I'd be requesting a section.

Of course, I could have had a straightforward vaginal delivery and been fine, but it's the random nature of it that's the problem. You never know which you're going to get: a smooth magical hypnobirth with tealights and room spray or a fucking horrendous ordeal that causes lifelong damage or results in permanent damage to your baby. If you have the former and that's your only experience then you'd wonder why anyone would want a section. If you have the latter, you'd wonder why anyone would want a vaginal birth...

They shouldn't be banned, no. There's a discussion to be had about whether we too often allow matters to progress to the stage when an instrumental is necessary rather than performing a section earlier, though. A mother with a back to back baby and/or who's already experienced a prolonged latent phase is at greater risk of needing an instrumental delivery than a mother with neither of those things, and these are facts that would be known before the pushing stage. Allowing women who are statistically less likely to have a vaginal delivery without instruments is often a choice. It's one we could make differently sometimes.

My OBS/GYN neighbour had her babies by c-section and said that no way on god's earth would she have even considered a VB because of the associated risks of long-term damage and the complete crap-shoot when it comes to quality of care.

If men had to give birth and put up with everything that goes along with it, c-section on demand would have become law a long time ago.

@Buddytheelf85

I don’t think I did miss the point. The second paragraph of my post pretty much tallies with what you’re saying about births needing to be better managed.

I didn’t say that feeling hurt was the most rational response I could have had, and it’s not like I’m in floods of tears over here, it’s just that the OP waded straight in with “Instrumental births should be banned”, so my immediate thought was “Oh, ok. I would have died without one, so... yeah. Cheers.”

I often find that when someone posts on AIBU about wanting something banned, they haven’t really thought through the potential consequences of such a banning.

Baby 1, EMCS after 2 hours of pushing and failed ventous. He was still fairly high up the birth canal.

Baby 2, VBAC, odds were favourable after previous spontaneous labour and full dilation. Both pregnancies were affected by SPD which made active labour much harder. First time, I was beached up on my back out of exhaustion of an all nighter. Second time, I was in a better position over a birthing ball. All was going well and progressing much quicker, but the MW began to struggle to pick up the heart rate. Maybe position? Maybe something serious like uterine rupture? The big red button was pressed and I was whisked off to theatre for an EMCS. Baby was at about the point of no return and was born by forceps delivery at a cost of a 3rd degree tear for me. He was in good condition other than bruising.

I'm careful about my undergarments before running or trampolining years later. The immediate recovery was tough. The SPD was aggravated and still causing constant pain and impaired mobility for 3 months. I barely left the house in the first month, spent mainly sitting on frozen veg and being close to the shower to manage toileting. I was in poor health after the CS, but got my independence back much quicker and had minimal pain.

You can't ban forceps in a bubble. What else is Denmark doing that enables maternity care to function without forceps? Banning forceps in isolation would mean more complex emergency CSs with poor outcomes for baby and mother, it could only be in an altered package of provision.

Women should stop being told that vaginally deliveries are better for them. That is only really the case for the lucky few who recover quickly with no lasting damage.

Even women I know who had “nice” water births don’t feel their vagina is back to Lee-birth. I don’t know a single women who has given birth vaginally who says she has fully recovered in the sense of being who she was before.

Other than aesthetically, and one person with numbness, no one I know who had a section has ongoing problems.

I had forceps, and will never recover. I wish to God I had had a caesarean.

Media should discuss a bit more about birth injuries. Women feel ashamed and are not encouraged to talk about their traumatic experiences, incontinence, fistulas etc.. Birth injuries are not only a Third world country issue.

Before giving birth I was terrified of having a c section as I had been told every possible side effect, from failure to breastfeed to having an apron afterwards. I did need one in the end and it was relaxed and had no infection or hemorrhage. The lovely consultant who did said the incision was nice and next baby I can try VBAC.

Sorry my point about forceps is it isn’t just forceps that cause women birth injuries. They happen anyway.

It's difficult, because there will be a lot of us who owe our own and/or our children's lives to instrumental deliveries, but equally, if they were banned (which I'm opposed to) many of those deliveries will have been CS and might actually have been a safer option all round.

lilybetsy Wolfiefan you could come on to MN and start calling people ignorant to make yourself feel superior or you could educate yourself. Along with Denmark, forceps are banned in most US hospitals. It's about managing childbirth so mothers don't get to the stage of no return. There are moves to ban in other countries also.

There needs to be more laying out of risks to pregnant mums, I had no idea of this risk and I have three children, one of whom nearly needed forceps! They need to give women a chance to say “if things look like they’re going south, don’t wait and do forceps, c-section me”. I got a real funny look off my MW when I told her I wasn’t going to be induced and if the sweep didn’t work, the baby was staying in or they’d have to cut me open.

Forceps saved both mine and my son's lives at his birth (delayed second stage, failed ventouse) and ventouse saved my daughter's life at her birth.

Fortunately no severe long lasting effects. Caesarian deliveries have a much higher risk of complications.

The headline should be about the appalling lack of post-natal care and support - emotional and physical - and the lifelong complications that women have no choice but to live with.

I thought this would be about mailing guitars and drum kits me too Harry and i thought the conservatory thread was about conservatoires so i think i might give up today

If forceps had not been used, my DD would be dead. So....what would you suggest OP?

Happen to agree with above posters saying op is showing ignorance and needs to check the facts... Nobody wants a instrument birth but unfortunately if they are need they are needed it's better than the unspeakable.

Depends what you mean by a complication stronger. I don’t think women who have had caesareans have a higher risk of prolapse than the 1 in 3 who give birth vaginally, but the emotional impact of that features nowhere in the research on which isn’t better.

grubbyhipsterbeard, you’ve not met me, but I assure you my vagina is fine after one episiotomy and two births that left only grazed labia. It has a wobbly bit of skin on the outside I don’t think was like that before, but it feels the same and I am perfectly continent, the scar tissue after my episiotomy was tight for a year then regained elasticity.

yanbu
better antenatal care and observation during birth could prevent many instrumental deliveries.
I bet in most cases there was a concern voiced by the birthing woman which was ignored by the midwive.

luvsmalldogs I mean this sincerely not snarkily - I am really happy to hear that. I actually want women to be ok after birth, and to have a positive experience.

Maybe people I know are just unlucky but I don’t think supposedly successful vaginal births record the full picture for a lot of woman. I’d be interested to hear from others who notice no difference after vaginal birth as maybe my perspective is skewed by the experiences of those around me.

CS deliveries dont necessarily have a much higher risk of complications though. Emergency forceps deliveries just have a different set of risks. Women should know the different set of risks of forceps vs CS and make their own decision should the need arise.

The whole ‘CS is always so much riskier than any kind of VB’ is a complete widespread myth. I believed it during my 1st pregnancy then was shocked after my high rotational forceps delivery to research and realise my birth had a horrible set of risks that didn’t apply to a CS. Yes, CS has risks as well but neither was obviously ‘worse’ than the other, just different. It should have been my informed decision to decide which set of risks I was happier with. And that was comparing emergency CS.

You also get the women unaware that, due to their own risk factors, a planned CS would be a favourable option for them CS vs the high risk they will end with a more dangerous instrumental delivery or with an EMCS, but the information is never relayed and they are never given the choice.

I don’t believe instrumental deliveries should be banned but it’s really not a straightforward issue.

I often find that when someone posts on AIBU about wanting something banned, they haven’t really thought through the potential consequences of such a banning

No, and tbh I am/was hoping to hear from someone on the ground (midwife or OBGYN) about why they are so commonly used in the UK. I suspect it is to keep CS rates down, which is a fine goal, but what if the cost is lifelong incontinence problems?

And obviously I don’t want mothers/babies to die in childbirth; the outcomes/procedures would obviously be managed differently in countries where forceps are not used.

Even women I know who had “nice” water births don’t feel their vagina is back to Lee-birth. I don’t know a single women who has given birth vaginally who says she has fully recovered in the sense of being who she was before.

What do you mean 'who she was before'? Eight months on from my second-degree tear my vagina seems the same as before to me and (he says) DH - my body isn't, but that's all pregnancy, not birth. It did take a good few months for the stitches/scar to heal, but personally I feel incredibly grateful to have not had a C section and the recover that comes with that (I was on the most amazing high for about three days after giving birth), but then I am also very grateful not to have had an instrumental birth - that was a big fear of mine, and the main reason I didn't want an epidural.

However, I find it a bit off/offensive to suggest that if my vagina was a bit different or - god forbid - bigger that would mean I was somehow damaged as a person, which seems to be what 'not who she was before' implies? Nobody wants incontinence or pain after a delivery, of course, but I find the idea that the absolute ideal is for a woman's body to show no signs she has ever given birth a bit suspicious, too.

All three of mine were instrumental deliveries, two vontuese, one forceps. I had the best recovery from the forceps by far. But ever since when I need to move my bowels it's a bit urgent. I knew the risk and am happy with my choice and the outcome. I really do think there is a place for forceps. My choice was forceps, a c section under general or keep going and have our fingers crossed I didn't start fitting. Forceps is sometimes the best of a bad lot.