That instrumental delivery should be banned?

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I know it’s the DM but this is shocking:

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6797199/As-doctors-midwives-finally-act-searing-expos-childbirths-shameful-secret.html

They say 10 percent of mums suffer from some sort of anal incontinence! Claims forceps are the biggest cause so why are they still used? AIBU to say they should be banned? Why couldn’t you just get a C-sec at that point?

No of course they shouldn't be banned. My first child wouldn't be here if it wasn't for forceps. By the time they got me to theatre and knocked out etc he would have either been dead or severely brain damaged. With a skilled consultant and forceps he was out in 20 seconds and I am eternally grateful.

Of course they shouldn't be used if not needed but certainly shouldn't be banned.

It is a really excellent post - thank you for sharing your experience so eloquently

@WhereDoWeGo spot on. For me I developed a pouch inside which meant that every time I poo I have to assist myself manually, usually through the vagina wall. It also means that I get constipated easily as it all gets backed up. My bladder has dropped so I often get the urge to wee, but no wee. Or wet myself.

I fell over once doing a parkrun. What was mortifying is I wet myself spectacularly at the same time. Everyone noticed, it was awful. Last week I stumbled slightly on the pavement at wet myself.

Part of my vagina wall drops down and almost out of my vagina. During my period it actually feels as if my insides might fall out.

At its worst, I used to think I would wait until ds was grown up and then I would kill myself. Because I couldn't face the daily humiliation and discomfort.

I wish they were banned.

You're absolutely right, WhereDoWeGo - yes, of course mother and baby making it through labour alive is the number one priority, but so many women suffer due to the reluctance to perform c sections which could help prevent serious birth injuries.

My friend went from extremely fit (ran marathons) and working full time to double incontinence, two years off work (much of it unpaid), multiple surgeries, unable to leave the house and severe depression. Surgery to help fix things helped with the faecal incontinence a bit but damaged her bladder so she has to self catheterise every four hours plus constant agony. She returned to work very part time and had to have the desk eight next to the loos and a special wipe clean desk chair. She was so utterly humiliated by the whole process of returning to work and still had to take do much time off that she opted to be medically retired in the end. Her husband left her,saying she wasn't the same woman he fell in love with and he couldn't cope with all the misery and no sex life any more. She had to hire carers to help look after her DD as she couldn't lift or run after a toddler. She's had benefits stopped by the same company that did her occupational health report for medical retirement and said she would most likely never work again.

My friend begged and begged for a c section for hours. She was told 'we don't give sections just because you ask... You just need to put some effort into your pushes... You don't need a section, you're doing great, you just need to be braver and push!' over and over. It has absolutely ruined her life and had a massive, lasting effect on her whole family. Just being alive and the baby being well isn't the only important thing.

to all the women sharing their stories.

I think stopping this happening to women in future must be a priority. I’m not saying forceps should be banned entirely but a more honest and realistic portrayal of the risks of vaginal birth and the prioritisation of informed birth choices inc trying ventiuse first, or an elective section, would be a good start.

*ventouse

When I was a student nurse doing obstetrics , I came across a brilliant book called Spiritual Midwifery by Ina May Gaskin. It was about an American hippy commune in the 70 ‘s who wanted to live simple lives in the sunshine with good family values. They had little money so couldn’t pay doctors or midwives, but were initially taught midwifery by one helpful doctor.
They put an emphasis on patience and keeping the birthing woman calm and happy.

In over 100 births they had one emergency caesarean, the stats are all recorded at the end of the book.

The book is for teaching and documentation, but what they achieved puts forward an argument that medicalisation of birth gives rise to intervention, and the stats back that up.
If you’re at all interested in this as a concept have a look at it, it’s a great read, and the B&w pics of hippies in flares and caftans smiling with their bumps and babies are great!

I don’t think it is off topic wheredowego. You were happy to have a VBAC, and all women who wish to give birth vaginally should be supported to do so if possible - provided they know the risks.

However most of us don’t because all we ever hear about is how c-sections are bad and vaginal birth is better.

In fact the risks are different and women should be able to decide which risks they’re more comfortable with.

If I had known the likelihood of me ending up with a prolapse as a result of being induced (when you factor in increased risk of intervention and consequent increased risk of prolapse) I don’t think I would have agreed. We’ll never know I suppose, but I feel really misled as a lot of women do. It’s easier for them if we give birth vaginally so who gives a shit if we never recover - that’s how it feels.

Of course the baby being here safely is fantastic but you shouldn’t have had to suffer this way for it. Maybe it couldn’t be helped in your case, but it definitely isn’t true that the baby being here safely is all that matters. I hope things improve for you

When you have a caesarean they consent you on the risk of death, even though it’s extremely rare. But fair enough but a section is a major procedure and people should know what can go wrong before agreeing to it.

Conversely, I’m astonished women aren’t told about incontinence from vaginal delivery which is so much more common. I suppose you might say women aren’t “consented” for vaginal delivery at all, it just happens, and by the time the forceps are needed there may be no going back.

I was induced so was consented and was warned about the risk of a caesarean but little if anything about the risk of an induced vaginal birth. I’m sorry but I think it’s crazy.

If others who were induced were warned before agreeing to it I’d be interested to know - no idea if my experience is typical.

Not if it's a last resort life-saving procedure, no. Which I think it generally is?

@Pinkbells but often because the way birth is managed it is no longer a choice. I could have had a C-section the beginning my ds heart rate dropped. Or instead of being given syntocin when my contractions just stopped. What happened is the syntocin took my from 5 cm to 10cm in an 1.5 HR and my ds descended too quickly with cord round his neck.

HappySpud I, too, encountered an arrogant Registrar who although I was due a planned c section the next day decided to give me a sweep without my consent. I thought it was strange when the nurse came running after me as I was leaving to say if I went into labour to come straight back. Was it a top teaching hospital in London by any chance.

Another one thankful for forceps (and my incontinence issues 😄)

Ohyesiam but there are plenty of countries where births aren't medicalised at all. We don't hear reports of how births there are so smooth and no-one needs intervention, but we do hear reports of them having far higher numbers of maternal and baby deaths and other adverse outcomes. I'm not disputing that the balance may have swung too far towards intervention in this country but it doesn't follow that all would be great if we just relaxed and didn't bother with modern medicine (I know that's not exactly what you were saying).

Take Ina May with a large pinch of salt. Of course more medicalisation leads to more intervention, but for most of us the relevant point is whether this leads to better outcomes for mother and baby. The avoidance of intervention isn't in itself something women automatically aspire to. I know some of you do, but personally I give as much of a shit about avoiding intervention per se as I do about the colour of the midwives eyes.

The picture is rather complex, not least because better outcomes doesn't look the same to everyone. But this is a sufficiently complicated subject that anyone telling you the answer lies in minimising or indeed maximising intervention is probably an ideologue with an agenda.

You could only ban instrumental deliveries if you ban vaginal deliveries full stop
It is not always safe to do a Caesarean section
I'm an obstetrician

I agree with the poster who mentioned the pig headed attitude towards c sections. I had a ventouse with DC1, in the operating theatre as they didn’t expect it to work and thought a c section would be necessary. In the end the doctor pulled so hard to get him out vaginally that I swear she had her foot up on the table for leverage. My son wouldn’t lie flat or turn his head to the left for three months and I had to go back after nine months for reconstructive surgery. I think I should have had a section.

What the hell OP?! I'd rather run the risk of anal incontinence that have my baby die.
A C section is major surgery as carries far far more risk than anal incontinence, not to mention a far longer recovery time and more chance of women experience mental health difficulties.

Your post is disgusting.

Your post is disgusting

Why? Not all doctors agree that forceps are necessary. They are not widely used in America (many hospitals have banned them) and I understand that Denmark has banned them completely. Why does the UK continue to use them so frequently? I think it’s because of the lower costs of VB (and maybe for those precious low CS stats)

I think the stats haven’t properly captured the lifechanging injuries that can happen with forceps. I have attached this letter from an OBGYN about why forceps are becoming a rarity in the discipline, it’s very eye-opening.