To ask if you would be/are happy with this level of sex education?

[manicinsomniac]

Last week the Year 8s where I work were off timetable for a morning to attend workshops run by a company which specialises in more sensitive sex education that is difficult for children to open up to teachers about - consent, sexting, porn, legality etc. The workshop is marketed at their age group and parents were informed it was happening/given the option to withdraw their children. Nobody did.

But I was really taken aback - both about what was covered and what some of the children evidently understood. Some of it was done with no teachers present so I don't know about that but what I saw included detailed discussion about the content of pornography and how it compares to real life, how to know if you are ready to have sex, the dangers of anal sex and which scenarios are and aren't legal when it comes to sexting and consent.

Many of the children clearly knew about and appreciated such statements as 'The pizza man just delivers the pizza and leaves - real life or fantasy porn?' 'Most couples have anal sex - true or false?' Putting aside the awkward sense this left me with that these 12 year olds have obviously seen more explicit material than I have (!), I can see that the workshop was really important for them. They're obviously at that level so they need it. I'm just stunned that they are. They seem so young.

My concern is really that there were some children who had no idea about any of this. And it seemed a bit early/inappropriate to educate them in it! Our head wants Year 7 to have the same workshop towards the end of the summer term. My daughter is in Year 7 and I am 99.9% certain that she has never seen porn, never sent or received a sext, doesn't know what anal sex is, has never seen an adult penis to wonder whether it's above average size or not and hasn't had any sexualised experiences at all. She doesn't have a phone or an iPad and she isn't on social medial. Several of her friends seem to be at a similar developmental stage. The year group as a whole seem much more than a year younger than the year above. But some are more experienced/mature than my daughter, obviously.

I don't want to be 'that parent' (especially as I'm a teacher at the school!). But I would really like to withdraw my daughter from this. I just don't really want her listening to it. Some of it even made me hot and uncomfortable! (yes, I admit, I'm a prude).

Would you be happy with it?

I think, in the ops case, it is too much all at once. You can teach about healthy relationships, consent and sexting without playing the 'planet earth/planet porn' game. Imo it should be done over a series of weeks, giving pupils opportunity to reflect on what they learn and ask questions.

@manicinsomniac - you don't want them finding out when they get to their next school. You really don't. I've friends who attended private schools and they have all described some horrific things happening - the worst was one bloke who went to boarding school. Not a whiff of abuse from the teachers - but his room mate, the same age as him, well - he needed to have heard these things before he was put in a room with another student. And to know that he could have reported it and sought medical treatment without being expelled for 'being gay' when he was actually a victim of repeated rapes over the year.

In addition, there is definitely a subset of privileged males who behave atrociously towards girls. Always has been - you're protecting future girls who might have ordinarily been quite sheltered from the likes of them at university - and the nicer, normal boys who either learn to behave in the same way or just don't know how to interact with females in a relationship.

Our Year 7s look like babies. Especially the boys. It never stopped them being the worst offenders for finding their information about sex from unsuitable sources (like older brothers, step fathers, other kids with those awful older relatives or in local authority care, the internet..) before it was timetabled in their PSHEE lessons. And the giggling, laughing, looking shocked, embarrassed and acting the know it all clown are absolutely normal reactions.

It's better to teach them a year too early for some than a week too late for one.

OP If your dds are dancers, are you sure they haven’t been exposed to porn already? My then 8yo saw her first scary YouTube video (she’s the sensitive sort, tbh it could have been much, much worse) during the lunch break of a youth ballet rehearsal - the child concerned had an iPad with full internet access and no filters or limits. And there’s very little supervision when they’re not dancing, ime.

I'm also impressed that no parents withdrew their children. I think the militant 'let them be children and we'll teach them when WE decide they're ready' contributes to more damage done to youngsters than anything else, as the parents are choosing to deliberately handicap their children (usually girls, but not always) and make them defenceless against coercion and abuse from both adults and other kids.

Well done your parents and well done for being reasonable and thinking about it. I certainly wish I'd known a couple of weeks after my 11th birthday when four of us were sexually assaulted in the swimming pool by a 12 year old boy and his mates. But we didn't have the lessons for another three months.

I'm also impressed that no parents withdrew their children. I think the militant 'let them be children and we'll teach them when WE decide they're ready' contributes to more damage done to youngsters than anything else, as the parents are choosing to deliberately handicap their children (usually girls, but not always) and make them defenceless against coercion and abuse from both adults and other kids.

Well done your parents and well done for being reasonable and thinking about it. I certainly wish I'd known a couple of weeks after my 11th birthday when four of us were sexually assaulted in the swimming pool by a 12 year old boy and his mates. But we didn't have the lessons for another three months.

I agree with Whatsername that it seems a lot to cover in one morning, but I've no issue with the content that's been listed. I've discussed all of that with my Y7 daughter and did the same for her older brother when he was that age. She's still the same sweet kid who regularly questions why people do mean things, she just a sweet kid who has been taught important facts to help her deal with life and not be misled by the myths and pressure out there.

I've repeatedly seen that 11 is about the average age a British kid first sees porn and not much older for girls recalling the first time experiencing sexual harassment. That may be why it's being brought down. I know around here kids around that age come out with some obviously porn-inspired comments, whether from their own watching or older people, it's affecting kids. Really, Y10 is way too late to discuss these things.

Y7/8 is the perfect age to do this imo.

This kind of education needs to occur before kids start asking each other for nudes and unfortunately my guess is that the average y7 will have seen porn.

Your dd might have no interest but I'd be surprised if she hadn't heard other kids discuss blow jobs, wanking etc

I've just realised this is another reason to be glad the school DD's moving up to has a blanket no smartphones on site rule! Less chance of a peer trying to 'teach' their friends something about 'sex'. Or boys thinking it'd be funny to show a girl something horrid to upset them.

I think it has to happen by year 8 at the latest. It’s a good thing if the first time they are exposed to such topics it is in that sort of environment. I’d rather my 12 year old discussed anal sex for the first time with adults trained to answer questions honestly and sensitivity rather than a bunch of clueless, misinformed peers.

It's tricky. The thing is if you don't expose her to stuff like this then the first she'll hear of it is from friends who will be full of shit - telling her everyone does x, or its a fact they can't get pregnant their first time, or pulling out is a reliable form of contraception etc.

You could always speak to the course leaders about it - see if you can have examples of what they will be teaching them and see if you think it's age appropriate. I would hope they would tailor it slightly for different ages.

The thing is from a practical viewpoint, if her friends go, they are going to tell her all about it anyway, but the key messages might get lost.

I wouldn’t care, it’s not an unknown fact that at that age kids start to learn about it wether we want them to or not. They hear it from friends so they may aswell be properly educated on it. I didn’t start sex Ed till year 9 and by then some of my fri3nds were having sex on a regular basis, not me lol I was a good girl and waited till I was 16 😂

I’m a bit torn on this.

Whilst I appreciate there will be 12 year olds who sadly are aware of much of this and need the proper education around it, equally there will be 12 year olds who are only just getting to grips with what sex is and will honestly be quite disturbed to hear all about anal sex and blow jobs and porn.

They may need to start knowing more than they do but this could be way too way in one go for some and genuinely distress them and confuse them more

At 12 my youngest would not have had the foggiest and it would have been like hitting him with a brick. I did always always talk to them all about abuse and make sure they knew enough to have boundaries but some kids are just not ready at 12 for the very graphic realities of some of the more unpleasant sides of sex.

Do we force those nowhere near this stage to go through it because some are?

It’s a tricky one

Given what very young children now have very easy access, I’d rather they learn this way than from their own experience at the age of 11/12. It’s unfortunate and not my preference but if they know what porn is it at that age it’s only a matter of time until they attempt to replicate it. I think the right approach is to couple this formal education with your own “talks” at home. At the end of the day, you know your child so you’ll know how to approach it in a delicate but informative way.

The school I work at had similar last week. For the year 8s and 9s. The year 9 content was focussing on domestic abuse and controlling relationships (especially those where one partner is 15/16 with a partner a few years older. Some of it was quite heavy stuff and a few of them did struggle, as it's quite an immature year group anyway.

Obviously not many (or any of the group I was with) have been in situations like these but it is far better to arm them with the correct information and how to protect themselves now, rather than have them end up in situations that could have been prevented.

YABU and completely naive if you really think Y7s don't know about this stuff

I was a nice sheltered bookish girl who was groomed precisely because I didn't know those words so had no idea what I agreed to.

And I also think it fair to point out that my assailant had no idea how bad what he was doing was- because nobody had told him either.

We would both have been better off if somebody had spelled it out.

And this was 40 years ago, when the world was perhaps safer but not so safe than an ignorant boy couldn't do long-lasting harm.

I teach sex-ed and in my most recent lessons with Y6 students (10 /11 years old), my first lesson started with an open question session. Many of the questions linked to things such as penis length, anal sex, porn etc as well as many questions linked to puberty, including masterbation. Children often have a completely unrealistic view of sex/puberty, and honest, open and frank discussion is absolutely necessary. The lessons you have queried sound fantastic in my opinion, and it should be glaringly obvious that they were absolutely necessary given how much the child already thought they knew.

It's the right age, some will be sexually active by the time they are 13.

Sadly this does need to be covered. sexting does tend to start yr 7/8 and horrifically sometimes even earlier. Until ALL parents get a grip of what their kids are up to online, schools are going to have to keep tackling these issues, it’s very sad.

It's done in year 9 where I teach. I think towards end of Year 8 would make more sense for my school. Doing it in year 7 does seem a bit early. I'm doing puberty with my year 7 form at the moment and that is blowing their minds! "Miss, please can you explain what a wet dream is again?"

My kids learned about wet dreams in primary sex Ed. Are you sure they aren't asking to wind you up?

I'm in favour of this. One way or another they will learn and we need to be truthful with children about sex. They clearly knew more than you were anticipating.

Many people disagree with teaching DS about sex and where babies come from. He knows not to discuss it with his friends but that he can come to me or his DF with questions of things he's seen or heard in the playground. That's is not dirty or secret. He's 6 and yes he has heard things in the playground.

Disclaimer, before anyone says, it's all age appropriate and we don't make a huge deal of it. I'd just rather he got the answers from us rather than his friends.

Very important to have this at age 12 since that's the age quite a few children are given smartphones.

I'd rather children learn this way than some boy showing everyone in the class rough anal sex or gangbangs on his phone at break.

These thing (unfortunately) happen, and there's no way to prevent it. The only thing we can do is ensure that before our children see it, they are prepared and aware that porn does not (often) constitute a healthy or normal sexual relationship, and to teach about consent and respect.

I am in my early 20s. I remember being shown porn on a mobile phone by a boy in my school year when I was in year 7, and I'm sure it's even easier to access now. It didn't matter that i didn't have my own device. I also remember talking about sex with friends from as early as year 6. By year 9, lots of girls had given oral sex, been sent sexual images and been on sites like Omegle, some had lost their virginities. Others we're opting for anal sex to avoid pregnancy. There was also an outbreak of chlamydia. At age 13/14.

My parents thought I was sheltered. I was not. (I was lucky and was 15 before I had an unsolicited dick shoved in my face).

The education is necessary.

"My daughter is in Year 7 and I am 99.9% certain that she has never seen porn, never sent or received a sext, doesn't know what anal sex is, has never seen an adult penis to wonder whether it's above average size or not and hasn't had any sexualised experiences at all."

NOWHERE do you say if you talk to your dd about such things or indeed anything sex related beyond basic birds & bees info do you?

I'm guessing not based on your reaction to other people's children being talked to about this.

They need to know BEFORE they're stuck in a conversation or even a situation related to these that they need to know how to handle.

"They need these sessions because they are being sexualised from a young age. The sex ed sessions aren’t the cause of sexualisation at this age, but early intervention has to be a good thing." This!

It's long been proven that more education about sex rather than encouraging premature sexual behaviour leads to kids being more thoughtful and careful and eg losing virginity later.

Dd is now 18, I've always been very open with her on all this. Her close friends mother is the complete opposite inc withdrawing her from Sex ed classes and being most put out when as the girls got older she was no longer able to do this - guess which girl lost her virginity first? In addition dds friend had to get map as it wasn't planned and no condom used.

"I've got a 16 year old who's similar (she does have a phone but doesn't use social medial)" wow! Ok how do you know this is definitely true? Have you discussed any of these subjects with the 16 year old?

I'm shocked you've a 16 yr old and hold these views to be honest