To ask if you would be/are happy with this level of sex education?

[manicinsomniac]

Last week the Year 8s where I work were off timetable for a morning to attend workshops run by a company which specialises in more sensitive sex education that is difficult for children to open up to teachers about - consent, sexting, porn, legality etc. The workshop is marketed at their age group and parents were informed it was happening/given the option to withdraw their children. Nobody did.

But I was really taken aback - both about what was covered and what some of the children evidently understood. Some of it was done with no teachers present so I don't know about that but what I saw included detailed discussion about the content of pornography and how it compares to real life, how to know if you are ready to have sex, the dangers of anal sex and which scenarios are and aren't legal when it comes to sexting and consent.

Many of the children clearly knew about and appreciated such statements as 'The pizza man just delivers the pizza and leaves - real life or fantasy porn?' 'Most couples have anal sex - true or false?' Putting aside the awkward sense this left me with that these 12 year olds have obviously seen more explicit material than I have (!), I can see that the workshop was really important for them. They're obviously at that level so they need it. I'm just stunned that they are. They seem so young.

My concern is really that there were some children who had no idea about any of this. And it seemed a bit early/inappropriate to educate them in it! Our head wants Year 7 to have the same workshop towards the end of the summer term. My daughter is in Year 7 and I am 99.9% certain that she has never seen porn, never sent or received a sext, doesn't know what anal sex is, has never seen an adult penis to wonder whether it's above average size or not and hasn't had any sexualised experiences at all. She doesn't have a phone or an iPad and she isn't on social medial. Several of her friends seem to be at a similar developmental stage. The year group as a whole seem much more than a year younger than the year above. But some are more experienced/mature than my daughter, obviously.

I don't want to be 'that parent' (especially as I'm a teacher at the school!). But I would really like to withdraw my daughter from this. I just don't really want her listening to it. Some of it even made me hot and uncomfortable! (yes, I admit, I'm a prude).

Would you be happy with it?

[brizzlemint]

I'm doing puberty with my year 7 form at the moment and that is blowing their minds! "Miss, please can you explain what a wet dream is again?"

I'm fairly sure that they aren't asking that question out of ignorance but more a desire to see if they can make the teacher squirm. It's toilet humour at young teenager level.

[BarbedBloom]

Yes I would be and I think it is the right age. I and a lot of my peers were having sex or at least sexually experimenting by 14/15 so the education needs to happen before it gets to that stage. Internet porn is accessible for a lot of teens and I am sure many of them are watching it from a young age, even if you have good parental controls, one of their friends may not.

Some of the conversations I have overheard on the bus/train from what look like very young teens also support that this sort of education needs to happen

[hardyloveit]

I think it's a great idea! Sex is everywhere now - magazines, social media etc and year 9 is too late for them to realise that sending naked pics at that age is against the law.
Kids feel the pressure at a lot earlier age than when I was at school!

Op you said yourself you are a prude..... how will you have a proper talk with your child about important things like this? Best that a workshop at the school does it.

Please don't take ur child out this workshop as she might be the only one and miss out on some vital information. Kids access porn too early now - I'm only early 30s and didn't see porn until probably early 20s and no one at my school spoke about it but a few of my friends kids who are secondary age have and it's worrying to think they think that's what should happen. My kids are primary age and do not want them thinking when they are in secondary that porn is what normal sex should be like!

[seven201]

I'm doing puberty with my year 7 form at the moment and that is blowing their minds! "Miss, please can you explain what a wet dream is again?"

I'm fairly sure that they aren't asking that question out of ignorance but more a desire to see if they can make the teacher squirm. It's toilet humour at young teenager level.

They're really not. In my previous school yes they would, but current school is a very well behaved girls school and my form seem particularly young and innocent. Of course some of them already knew what a wet dream is and a lot about sex, but honestly there were a lot of looking at me with shocked open mouths! They're really curious about stuff and there was giggling at times, as there should be .

[seven201]

Sorry my bold failed!

[Aquamarine1029]

You have a 16 year old and have never discussed sex with her?

[Angel2702]

I think it’s good otherwise they will only have these conversations amongst themselves I’d far rather it be done with responsible adults and giving proper info. No different from the sort of stuff you’d read in magazines at that age.

[Angel2702]

If you take your child out her friends will pass on the content of the workshop anyway you will only be removing her chance to understand it fully and ask questions.

[Hadalifeonce]

Will the content not be altered to reflect that it is being presented to year 7 and not year 8?

[differentnameforthis]

So they are trying to educate children that porn doesn't and shouldn't represent real life? GOOD!!

I see no issue. But then I openly talk to my daughter about these issues, so...

[manicinsomniac]

Woah, hang on. Where did I say that I have never talked to my 16 year old about sex?! Of course I have. I've talked to the 11 year old about it too - just never about the commonality of 7 inch penises, contents of porn films or anal sex. Is that so unusual?

Will the content not be altered to reflect that it is being presented to year 7 and not year 8?

No. We're going to book the exact same workshop the Year 8s had because the head things we got to the Year 8s too late. She's right, judging by this thread. I accept that.

"I've got a 16 year old who's similar (she does have a phone but doesn't use social medial)" wow! Ok how do you know this is definitely true? Have you discussed any of these subjects with the 16 year old?

Well, I suppose she could have social media accounts she never mentions or uses in my presence, yes. But why would she bother to hide them? I have social media and use it a lot. I'm not against her having it. She just says she can't really be bothered by it and she isn't overly social - says she spends enough time with her friends as it is! She uses the phone - just not instagram, snapchat, twitter or facebook. Unless she's lying which would be a bit pointless.

And we talk about sex as and when it's relevant, when it comes up in conversation. As it happens, no, porn has never been raised by either of us. I don't really know why it would be? If you're interested in it, it's much more the kind of conversation you have with a friend rather than a parent, surely!

[TwoRoundabouts]

You are being "that" parent.

Let your child go to the lessons.

Unfortunately I've now met lots of people who have been abused in relationships including sexually. Talking to them they lacked decent sex including relationship education.

[Graphista]

"But why would she bother to hide them?" Because I suspect your reaction wouldn't be great! How do you not know? When did she turn 16? When did she get a smart phone?

"And we talk about sex as and when it's relevant, when it comes up in conversation. As it happens, no, porn has never been raised by either of us. I don't really know why it would be? If you're interested in it, it's much more the kind of conversation you have with a friend rather than a parent, surely!"

This is exactly why YOU absolutely shouldn't withdraw your younger dd from this workshop.

Why would you raise porn etc? To educate your child with a view to keeping them safe physically and emotionally. As her parent it's really on you to address this, but then also as her parent you clearly avoid talking about sex as much as possible and she will sense that from you and not ask. Therefore less likely to get the right information and support.

I would say yes it is unusual now because most parents understand that they need to discuss such things with their DC in order to keep them safe, healthy and happy.

I'm really shocked that as a teacher and therefore exposed to how things are for kids now you don't seem to get this at all! Indeed as a teacher are you never asked by a pupil? I'd be seriously concerned that if a pupil came to you with something worrying in this area you wouldn't handle it well at all.

[Tookal]

I think there is a huge generational gap which is growing.
My partner who is just 5 years older than me got a first smart phone at 16 and never had any sexting on any thing

I got mine a 11 and by 12 was far my adapt at using my phone and the home internet than my parents

Obviously different people do things af different times but the difference between our childhoods is vast. Porn was spread round phones at school (i went to a catholic girls school too!). I had sexual contact by 13 and was sexting by that point.

My parents definately had no idea and used to worry that i was never intrested in boys!

The childhood we grew up in is often vastly different to the ones our children do

[FuzzyShadowChatter]

That they might prefer to discuss sex or porn with a friend or look it up online doesn't mean parents shouldn't actively talk about it. It's not comfortable or fun, but there are plenty of resources that help parents talk about these things because it's so important. I'm glad schools are working on this. I think body knowledge and these sorts of social issues should be an education priority.

I'm not sure on how common it is - haven't really discussed it in person with other parents - but yes, my Y7 daughter and I read through an article on male anatomy that discussed several things including average penis lengths and articles on the reality vs porn, the issues with the porn industry, and discuss how porn is linked to young girls being pressured to do things like anal sex and a lot of related things. We did it across several evenings after the younger kids went to bed. We had some great awkward conversations and rewarded ourselves with a movie night at the end. She is now more confident and willing to discuss these things with me as she has more understanding and vocabulary to express her thoughts and concerns and knows I will take the time to try to find a source for any of her questions, no matter how embarrassing.

Maybe it's because my oldest is the sort of child who pretty much never asks questions so the whole 'explain when they ask' has never worked in my house, but I don't think it's wise to wait for children to bring up things this important that can have such serious consequences if they choose to go down the friend or internet path or left unaware.

[Vulpine]

Not sure 12 year olds 'need' to learn about anal sex to be fair

[outpinked]

I think end of year 7/ early year 8 is the right time for this and it sounds fantastic imo.

[manicinsomniac]

Graphista - you're extrapolating an awful lot from the very little I've said about my family life and I'm not quite sure why.

"But why would she bother to hide them?" Because I suspect your reaction wouldn't be great! How do you not know? When did she turn 16? When did she get a smart phone?

Why would I have a poor reaction to her using social media. I use it all the time. I have absolutely nothing against it. In fact, I love it and am a facebook addict. But plenty of people aren't bothered by it or actively avoid it and my daughter appears to be one of them. Who am I to tell her that's wrong? She turned 16 in November and she got a Smart Phone when she was 13 and moved up to Senior School.

Why would you raise porn etc? To educate your child with a view to keeping them safe physically and emotionally. As her parent it's really on you to address this, but then also as her parent you clearly avoid talking about sex as much as possible and she will sense that from you and not ask. Therefore less likely to get the right information and support

I don't avoid talking about sex? Again, why would I. I'm a single mum to 3 girls and I was only 19 when I had DD1. So we're pretty close, I'd say. We talk about anything - whatever arises in conversation. Porn just hasn't and yes, I admit I'm surprised that it's so much of an everyday part of life that many are saying. I know it is for some but I didn't think that it would be that prevalent. It's not something I've ever seen or wanted to see and I feel that many adults (perhaps particularly women) are the same.

I'm really shocked that as a teacher and therefore exposed to how things are for kids now you don't seem to get this at all! Indeed as a teacher are you never asked by a pupil? I'd be seriously concerned that if a pupil came to you with something worrying in this area you wouldn't handle it well at all

What don't I 'get' - that lots of pre teens are using porn? Yes, I do get that. This thread has made that perfectly clear and I said way back on page 1 or 2 that I appreciate that and won't withdraw 11 year old from the workshop.

No, I've never been asked by a pupil about porn. I teach 7 - 13 year olds, I'm a subject specialist and don't have a form class. I only sat in on last week's workshop because the children wouldn't talk with SLT in the room and the workshop leader was looking for free staff to switch in. The proportion of children that are struggling with these kinds of topics are just a percentage of our oldest Year group. And anything worrying that is brought to me by any pupil is transferred to our pastoral, medical and/or safeguarding team. I teach. I'm not qualified to deal with anything else.

[DoJo]

The year group as a whole seem much more than a year younger than the year above. But some are more experienced/mature than my daughter, obviously.

And would you rather they were the ones who told her about porn and anal sex? Because they will.

Not sure 12 year olds 'need' to learn about anal sex to be fair

They do if there's any chance they will hear about it (including overhearing a discussion between older peers) from a source which is unlikely to be reliable, and particularly if that is someone who is suggesting it as a way to prevent unwanted pregnancy (as I heard a couple of tweens discussing on a bus recently!).

[Graphista]

Extrapolating is kinda what happens all the time on mn! Because we only have what the op posts and our own life experiences to go on. I don't think it's a bad thing.

I too think SM is neither good nor bad in and of itself, it's a platform BUT it's how it's used and with CHILDREN that needs careful monitoring.

Your reply that your 16 year old got a smart phone at 13 but you don't seem to have monitored her use of the phone or certainly not thoroughly, because if you had you would know for certain if she used sm or not and how she was using it and how she communicated/communicates with her friends, I see no indication that you currently monitor either.

On talking to your dd about sex - you wait until SHE raises a subject! Myself and others have pointed out repeatedly that by the time our children are asking certain questions, harm may already have occurred to them. You're not pro-active in your discussions with them - based on your own replies and admitted prudish attitude.

Also porn is not the only subject in the workshop nor the only one we're referring to here. I very much get the sense that you've kept any talk about sex to puberty, periods and procreation!

Have you discussed informed/enthusiastic consent? Sexual health beyond contraception and prevention of sti's? Expectations of partners? Relationships? Cos I'll be honest I'll be surprised if you have.

"It's not something I've ever seen or wanted to see and I feel that many adults (perhaps particularly women) are the same." do you think women don't use porn? Aren't interested in it? There are issues around ethical production etc but the fact is it is an immensely popular and frequently accessed product, especially by teens. You seem very tunnel vision on sex. As if you not having an interest/curiosity/enjoyment of a certain aspect means few others do, as yet - again - you've admitted you're somewhat prudish so you're unlikely to have the same interests as others in this arena.

I've just checked what subject you teach, performing arts and English? So you're supposedly teaching these children to communicate, to overcome barriers to communication (like embarrassment) and yet you seem not to be great at communicating with your own children?

If anything I'd have thought within that subject area you were perfectly placed to discuss performance vs reality in romantic (and other) relationships. In fact I'm amazed it's not part of the curriculum.

[SleepDeprivedCabbageBrain]

This is brilliant - I'd be delighted.

[manicinsomniac]

Your reply that your 16 year old got a smart phone at 13 but you don't seem to have monitored her use of the phone or certainly not thoroughly, because if you had you would know for certain if she used sm or not and how she was using it and how she communicated/communicates with her friends, I see no indication that you currently monitor either

Of course I monitored her phone. I was certain she isn't on social media. But it was pointed out to me upthread that I couldn't be certain because I don't know what she does at school or at friends' houses. So I conceded that yes, it's possible that she has an instagram account or something which she uses elsewhere. However, I said that I didn't see why she would bother to make a secret out of it or wouldn't use it on her own phone if she wanted to because I'd have no problem with her doing so whatsoever. So only reason for her not to would be her own preference.

Also porn is not the only subject in the workshop nor the only one we're referring to here. I very much get the sense that you've kept any talk about sex to puberty, periods and procreation!

Well, it was the subject I started the thread about. I didn't have any concerns about the other topics covered in the workshop. I believe I talk pretty openly to my own children about what they need and want to talk about. I just didn't think included pornography until this thread.

do you think women don't use porn? Aren't interested in it?

No. I said that I feel that many aren't interested, not any. I know many are. But I don't think it's unremarkable not to be. And yes, I think there is probably a higher proportion of men watching porn than women. But I don't have any evidence for that and might be wrong - it's just a general impression from people I know.

I've just checked what subject you teach, performing arts and English? So you're supposedly teaching these children to communicate, to overcome barriers to communication (like embarrassment) and yet you seem not to be great at communicating with your own children?

I have no problem communicating with my own children. I still don't understand why you think I do.

If anything I'd have thought within that subject area you were perfectly placed to discuss performance vs reality in romantic (and other) relationships. In fact I'm amazed it's not part of the curriculum

Not at our level, no. Senior school, probably. Year 8s do Kitchen Sink Theatre and Black Comedy units of work which touch on relationships. But our children don't even like working together in boy-girl groups and I've never managed to persuade any of them to even stage kiss. Awkward hugs and pulling sleeves down if they absolutely have to hold hands are about as good as it gets at this age. What they get up to in private/online is obviously different but in a classroom or school production - forget it.

[manicinsomniac]

I do think the fact that so many posters are saying they would be delighted or would love it means that the majority of schools aren't doing this at this age. So I think the concerns I raised are probably common ones.

[EyesAreNeverClosing]

I do think the fact that so many posters are saying they would be delighted or would love it means that the majority of schools aren't doing this at this age.

I don't know about that. At primary school we were told when these lessons were happening but at secondary I've never been told by the school. They sometimes tweet that a certain year had a talk from someone about relationships or consent or whatever. I mostly find out from my child or friends children that it's happened and then ask questions. So it may be that parents are not aware they have happened if they don't ask their kids or their kids don't volunteer the information.

[Bettyspants]

I think it'll be a bit of a mixed bag regarding the 'appropriateness ' for the whole class. There will be those who know about porn etc and those who are very naive. Some children will benifit hugely, and some may a bit shocked! I'd say it's best to be safe though and target children BEFORE they hear rumours or under pressure to sext etc.