Amber Rudd

[sue51]

I'm seeking to understand the differences between the terms “coloured women” and “women of colour”. They sound intrinsically similar but they may well be different, and a web search didn’t help in defining the difference.

The first term was used by Amber Rudd yesterday, and she quickly apologised as it had caused offence, but was still under criticism in the main national news. If a term is offensive then it’s right that it isn’t used, and where it has been used that should be the subject of an apology.

However, the term “women of colour” was used on Radio 4 this morning, and a review of the play Richard II at the Sam Wannamaker Playhouse by the Guardian’s Michael Billington prominently used the term “women of colour”, and one would have thought, given the Guardian’s credentials, that the term would not be used if it was likely to cause offence.

So, and asked in all sincerity, can anyone explain the difference between these two terms, and why one is deemed to be offensive while the other is apparently not? I would be mortified if I used a term which caused offence to someone but am genuinely curious about the difference in this case.

I'm a bit confused too. Ive heard it discussed on LBC too, and everyone was a bit vague about it while pretending they understood the historical reasons why one was ok and the other completely out of order. I must say, I do feel a bit sorry for Amber Rudd.

I think it’s because “coloured” was used during segregation in the US and in South Africa

I am a similar age to Rudd and it was the usual term when I was growing up. So can understand the inadvertent slip. And when you hear her say in the term in context it is clear that it was said in error and she apologised.

It was 'play write' Bonnie Grier talking about it on lbc. She was very unclear.

Coloured is a perjorative word used during segregation in the US and segregation in South Africa.

‘People of colour’ is a phrase used by movements to empower people who are not white.

Personally I don’t use ‘women of colour’ for myself, I prefer ‘black’, but ‘coloured’ has always been a perjorative word with no positive connotations.

*Apartheid in South Africa

It was the polite term when I was growing up and describing someone as black was considered insulting and rude. Then - not sure when - it changed and black was the preferred term. Now it’s person of colour, again I’m unclear when that happened. It sounded as if Rudd inadvertently slipped into the polite terminology of her upbringing.

Honestly I think way too big a deal is being made of this.

It’s a bit like calling someone gay a ‘pouff’ or ‘queer’ - commonly used in the past but it was not a pleasant way to refer to a gay person, it othered and demeaned rather than empowered.

I'm always a bit worried in case I insult someone by using the wrong word. My friend's husband is African. He refers to himself as black, so I've taken my cue from him.

He says he doesn't like 'coloured' because we're all 'coloured', just he's the colour black and I'm the colour white.

What merry said.

@Titsywoo

How much racism have you suffered?

I thought it was mad - its ok to say women of colour but not ok to say coloured women. Definitely over the top PC I think. If I was black I'd be proud and happy to be called black!

Yes alsohuman I had the same experience and a similar age to Rudd. I wish we’d get to a real debate about the economic effects of racial bias - conscious or unconscious, and not debates on terms where it’s clear no offence was intended.

I’d say ‘woman of colour’ emphasises the fact she’s a woman while coloured woman emphasises her colour, like it’s the most important thing - in the same way you would say a person with disabilities rather than a disabled person.
Plus the fact that, as PP have said, ‘coloured’ as a word has strong pejorative overtones.

I think it’s to do with where the words came from.

‘Coloured’ was used in the US to oppress people who weren’t white.

‘People of colour’ is a term that these communities have come up with themselves and find empowering.

Language is a weird thing, and not always logical, but is it really so hard to remember that you can’t say ‘coloured’?

I mean, I wouldn’t judge an eighty year old living in a very white area for saying it, but you would think that political parties would provide some sort of diversity training to politicians (and ministers, no less) before letting them on the radio.

What does over the top PC actually mean?

Because by my understanding being politically correct means not saying things you KNOW to be offensive to other groups.

BLACK people say ‘coloured’ is offensive so why would you want to use it?

GAY people say ‘queer’ is offensive so why would you refer to them thusly?

It seems to me people opposed to political correctness are fighting for the right to be unpleasant about people who belong to different ‘groups’ from them.

I think with a lot of offensive words/phrases, it’s a lot to do with history and social context, rather than an objective reason as to why one is worse than the other. For example, calling someone a cnt or calling them a pussy - in a way the main thing that makes cnt more offensive is because it’s perceived as more offensive even though whichever word you use, you’re calling them the same thing.
Not sure if I’ve explained my thinking very well there..

Just thinking about Amber Rudd’s age as an excuse - doesn’t wash with me. She’s less than a year older than I am. I know coloured is not a descriptor I should use for people. My oarents’ generation struggled with it. Amber Rudd shouldn’t, unless she has not listened to diverse voices and considered other people. Which is the point, is t it? She revealed a very insular and old fashioned mindset by using the term, even if (possibly especially if) it was unconscious.

When no offence was meant I would rather the choice of language being debated and people educated that the outburst of screams of racism. I was only aware after the benedict cumberbatch said it.

Thanks for the various comments and explanations. I accept the significance of context where used, and as per my initial post that if a term is perceived as pejorative it shouldn't be used, but I'm little the wiser about any substantive difference. I will always seek to avoid terms that may give offence but I am nonetheless still a tad frustrated at a lack of clarity about the terms themselves other than the context in which they were used - I'm not a semantic but do like clarity of meaning.

Queer has been appropriated by the LGBT community though. I was quite taken aback by a gay friend’s Christmas jumper which had a depiction of a stag and the slogan “Oh deer, I’m queer”.

I should state that I am more than a decade older than Amber Rudd.

There is nothing wrong with using Black, if you are talking about Black people.

People of Colour is a non-pejorative way of grouping non-white people from different ethnic backgrounds. So you wouldn't use it if all the people you are referring to are from Pakistan. Then you would call them Pakistani. It the same as for white people. You have Whites, White European, White British. We just don't use the terms as often.

Coloured is a term historically used alongside negro as a pejorative term, particularly in the US and South Africa.

I get that it can be frustrating to find that it is not OK to use a term you have used in the past, but there are valid reasons to object to 'Coloured' and it is not much effort to change a word here and there if it shows people that we have respect for them and their history.

Plus, Amber Rudd has advisors and speech writers paid for by us. She has no excuse for getting it wrong.

Offence might not be intended, but when we find ourselves in a position we are not expecting we default to our ‘basic training’ - the first word that came to Amber Rudd’s mind to describe a black woman was ‘coloured’ - a perjorative and demeaning word which may not have intended to cause offence, but it does.

She rightly apologised and that’s proper. Because she knows why she shouldn’t have said it.

Just to clarify - Coloured is not a word used in ‘old’ SA to refer to black people - Coloureds were people of mixed race - Trevor Noah would be considered coloured, nis mum was black a d his dad was white. The problem came in that races had to stick together and couldn’t mix ...