Boys left behind at school while girls get trip

[Quickchat1]

Recently my sons class went on an educational trip to a local university. But only the girls. The boys were left behind with a cover teacher listening to music and generally doing very little. My son is GCSE year and would have benefited from a computing and science event. No it was only for the girls with no mention of anything for the boys. I understand this was a STEM event for girls only but if there was a STEM event for boys only there would be uproar! AIBU?

A toy you can design and make clothes for. Or design and build a cot or a highchair

You mean if you own a doll you can do a load of stuff that’s not encouraged by the doll using stuff that doesn’t come with the doll? You could put the robot in nappies and sing it to sleep but that’s not how it’s sold.

An lot of 'robot' are all about their personality and 'teaching' the robot to burp and talk. Some of them even look like kittens and babies!
Have you been to a toy shop lately? Anyway gotta go. Hospital appt.

bookmum thanks, will look them up!!

"An lot of 'robot' are all about their personality and 'teaching' the robot to burp and talk. Some of them even look like kittens and babies! "

So they are dolls with extra robot features? A toy helping teach a girl how to burp a baby is not even remotely the same thing as giving a girl Mechano.

bookmum no of course that should happen but given that's my subject and research area I know the realities. It's more your denial of the influence of other factors such as the education system, societal expectations, gender norms etc.

Widening participation events are vitally important as we clearly still have a long way to go.

CostanzaG

Does free choice actually exist then?

It's not that they don't know those jobs exist.

It is partly that - people know there are jobs in IT, but many have little idea of the range and variety of jobs, and I assume it's the same in other STEM areas. So they might be thinking, "those jobs aren't for me," without a full understanding of what jobs are there, to know whether they really are suitable or not.

Some of them even look like kittens and babies!

You’re saying that robots that are designed to appeal to girls are helping them with childcare skills?

Yeah, that’s actually reinforcing the idea that girls are groomed into different careers than boys by the toys they are offered.

But what are we doing to ensure women are applying in the first place?

Pretty much all the large engineering companies I have worked for over the years have had proactive programmes in place with local schools with a view to promoting engineering as career via presentations, open days, work experience and attending careers fairs. I myself have been involved in these schemes and have spoken to plenty of young women who have been studying maths and physics A Levels and despite clearly having the academic aptitude to do very well on an engineering degree there is a general disinterest. Most of the girls attending these events have been pushed there by their teachers who can see their potential. We can try our best to sell the industry and highlight the rewards of such a career but at the end of the day there is just not the same enthusiasm that boys tend to show. Just to be clear, the feedback I have had from teachers is that these girls are not dying to pursue a career in engineering butdont have the confidence to step up or follow their dreams, at a base level they just don't care.

Has anyone actually studied the impact of initiatives like this?

I think that I am a pretty clued up parent but I struggled with navigating the education system around options, GCSEs, A levels and university applications. You need to be pretty switched on and have enough resources to consider, at the age of 13 or 14, what job you ultimately want and the path you need to take to get there.

I've volunteered in schools and spoken to many students about career plans. Many have a vague idea about what they want to do but absolutely no idea how to achieve it and you know that without parental support (and parental money!!!) the chances of them achieving are remote.

Is a one day women in STEM event in year 11 actually going to achieve anything? Is there additional funding available to help these students if their parents aren't in a position to? Is there help to select universities, apply for accommodation, act as guarantors if their parents can't?

Why aren't these events held in yrs 7 or 8 long before the students select GCSE options that might then narrow their choices later on?

pan not really. Some people have more 'free choice' than others but all choices and decisions are framed and influenced by our experiences, family, gender, ethnicity, society and so on.

My particular area of research is career decision making behaviour. I have found that career decisions are influenced by both individual traits and circumstances and as well as societal structures. It's most definitely not a level playing field by any stretch of the imagination.

Weetabix yes. Lots of people. It is also rarely a one off event. It will be part of a wider careers education and guidance programme.

Lots of people. It is also rarely a one off event. It will be part of a wider careers education and guidance programme.

Really? My son is 24 and my daughter 20. Both have been or are at university. I have never heard of any programme like this. Neither had any careers guidance other than a visit to school by the local 6th form college and a pack sent out with dates of open evenings for school 6th forms.

My daughter went to a 6th form at a local selective school, an outstanding school with an excellent reputation, and all that was offered was a post 18 fair attended by various different universities and open to the whole year.

There was definitely no targeting of specific groups of students for particular courses.

But why should the boys get a worse deal, when everything is out of their control? It’s the parents and those who recruit that need attitudes changing, not the boys missing out.

And I have never given 'girls' toys to girls. Both have been given exactly the same. I can’t control how others (including school days like this) treat them differently...

Weetabix it's a statutory requirement for schools to offer careers education and guidance so they will have definitely had something offered. Admittedly, it's not been as good as it could have been since the coalition government decimated careers education but it is improving.

Widening participation initiatives have been around for a very long time ( excellence in cities, excellence challenge, aimhigher, NCOP) but if your children didn't fall into a widening participation group then they won't have been targeted. As they are both at university it doesn't seem to have harmed them.

There can also access career support at their university if they still feel they need support.

thunder boys aren't getting a worse deal.

That's a very simplistic view. Yes recruiters attitudes need to change but that's no good if girls don't apply in the first place!!

It's really sad that people are arguing about this on International Women's Day

It's really fucking sad that we are arguing about this in 2019, and that there are women on the thread making under-informed, reactionary non-arguments, with no understanding of privilege and unconscious bias.

unguent YES!!!!!!!!

There are boys making underinformed choices because their backgrounds mean they don't magically know all of this stuff. They need opportunities as well.

thunder there are lots of events and initiatives targeting a whole range of underrepresented groups. It's not an either/or situation.

For example, I used to run events for white working class boys as well as events for first generation students. There are also some excellent events on accessing the professions .....just to name a few.

Are you also pissed off we don't celebrate international mens day?

No sympathies here, STEM subjects desperately need new students and scientists if the future and girls are massively underrepresented. The boys don’t need to be told it’s okay to be a scientist.

CostanzaG

thunder boys aren't getting a worse deal.

That's a very simplistic view. Yes recruiters attitudes need to change but that's no good if girls don't apply in the first place!!

Actually many hiring managers and recruiters are acutely aware of the lack of women in engineering and are under pressure from board level to get more women through the door. I know of several instances of young lads who have clawed their way up via sink estates, dysfunctional family homes and under performing schools to get through uni and to final round interviews against the odds only to passed over for the public school educated middle class women. Start lecturing those lads on their male privilege and see what responses you get.

Perhaps they should take just the boys to a careers in health and social care event - some universities run them on school day afternoons.

Or a careers in childcare event, or a primary or early years pgce open day...

Something female dominated generally looked down upon and poorly paid